Time Machine (Problems ?)

[Robert11]

Hello,

New iMac owner.

Tried a Time Machine backup to a Western Digital Passport external HD.
I know there was a Post re WD having problems, but I bought it previously, and thought might as well try it.

Anyway it seemed to have gone just fine. Took about 45 minutes or so.

But, I may have messed things up afterwards ? Possibly ?

When it was all done with the backup, I Un-Checked the Do Automatically box.
Since I am not really a heavy user, thought I could do the backups manually, periodically, and
avoid having to run the WD external HD continuously.

I'm not sure what I have now.

I don't think it is doing any hourly backups. Probably because the Do Automatically box is Un-Checked.

All I can get, wherever I look, is a window that says Time Machine 1.3 MB Last Modified Nov. 15, 2016.
That's right; 2016 ?

Also a bunch of nested windows (in the main Desktop window) all labeled Desktop.
What are these, please ?
I can find Time Machine listed, but again, only that very basic window mentioned above shows up.

So, how can I tell it to do the automatic backups again ? (I turned the pc on and off; no change)
Or, get to the main Time Machine Window, like when I started ?

Based on what is happening, I probably don't want to do manually, but just out of curiosity,
is it possible ?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[honestone]

At the risk of not getting any kind of "thank you", from what I understand, you should be able to do Time Machine backups manually. I don't use Time Machine, but by doing them manually, I suspect one would just be replacing the prior backup with a new one (versus doing an incremental backup, ie, applying changes in things).

As for "All I can get, wherever I look, is a window that says Time Machine 1.3 MB Last Modified Nov. 15, 2016", where are you seeing this? Also, 1.3 MB seems awfully small for the size of a backup. What happens when you click on the backup contained within the WD external drive, and then do a "Get Info" about it? What does that tell you?

 

[Robert11]

Hello,

I think in every post I have made, I have said how much I appreciate
the help. This is because I certainly do.

But, I adnit that I have not always sent a follow on with an additional thank you. But will try in the future.

Cant get at the pc now, but tge automatic said about 40 GB if I remember right.

Those messages re the date and the
1.3 MB are on that small window that keeps appearing. It has no buttons to choose anything.

Will go to the WD drive for the info you suggested first chance I get.

Should have left it to do the backups
autimatically, I guess.
Just cant seem to find a way to get back to that window with the clickable box to reset it to auto again.

Thanks for help, much appreciated,
Bob

 

[honestone]

Just to set the record straight, for most of your posts, when any of us offer suggestions, you do not let us know how it went. Recently (and I mean very recently) you are getting better at that. But here is just one example of what I am talking about:

https://www.mac-help.com/threads/using-office-on-apple-and-or-windows-side.224247/

I think you need to realize some things about Time Machine:

1. The backups made by Time Machine are not bootable. That makes recovering from a "disaster" more time consuming. I am certain I made this suggestion before, but you would be wise to read this thread I started a couple of months ago:

https://www.mac-help.com/threads/backups-backups-backups.223959/

That thread clearly explains the differences between Time Machine and Backup/cloning programs like SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner. I can tell you for a fact that you'll save yourself a good amount of grief if you use SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner, as both of them make bootable backups.

2. Regarding automatic backups, I actually do mine manually, once a week for both of my Macs (and in fact I just finished doing it), using SuperDuper!, and it easily satisfies my needs. If you don't need frequent backups/updates to your backups, doing them manually is much better. For automatic backups, if they are a "delete and replace", that would be OK. But if they are backups that basically are doing incremental ones, from what I understand, Time Machine is actually doing another full backup of all your "new" and existing stuff, but the prior backup does not get deleted. That will take up more and more disk space on your external drive.

It is, of course, up to you how you want to do your backups, but if you don't need backups very frequently, like myself, then doing them manually is better, and I believe you can have Time Machine first remove the prior backup, and then replace it with a new one. I know that's the way it works with SuperDuper!.

 

[Lufbrarunner]

The good thing with Time Machine backups is that you can recover individual files.
I use Carbon Copy Cloner which does a backup daily, which is then bootable and I have Time Machine backing up automatically. It works for me, as they say.

 

[honestone]

It seems, though, that with my SuperDuper! backups, I just double click on the icon for the backup on my desktop, and "play" with items there. That would seem to include obtaining individual files. But I certainly understand if one needs various "versions" of files, although that is where an incremental backup comes into play. I suspect incremental backups can be made with either SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner, but I have no need for that.

Again, for myself, the things that make SuperDuper! (or Carbon Copy Cloner) superior to Time Machine are 1) such backups are bootable (and thus recovery is much faster), and 2) recovery and/or a new Mac OS installation is easier, faster, and smoother, along with having more control. And of course for the installation of a Mac OS (as long as one has the applicable Mac OS installation file, which I have "preached" about so many times, using a SD or CCC backup gives one way more control over the process.

 

[bladerunner714]

Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner each have their place and I use them both. I have no experience with Super Duper! but I would rely on honestone’s remarks as accurate.

Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner both perform their backups incrementally in that only items that have been modified since the last backup task are copied. Both programs also allow for the recovery of individual items. They differ in that Time Machine keeps multiple versions of modified files while Carbon Copy Cloner keeps only the most recent. This allows Time Machine to present logical views of the backup at each point in time that a backup was created, the ‘nested windows’ you have observed, while Carbon Copy Cloner shows only the most recent backup. It also means that Time Machine backups will expand to fill the space available while Carbon Copy Cloner backups need little more space than the data to be backed up.

If automatic backups are selected in Time Machine, backups will run approximately every hour; if not, backups will only run when explicitly invoked. Whether Time Machine backups are run automatically or explicitly, the resulting backup is the same. Carbon Copy Cloner has a robust definition and scheduling facility which provides the ability to tailor various backups on various schedules to meet various needs.

Also, as noted, Carbon Copy Cloner backup volumes are bootable; Time Machine backup volumes are not.

For me, this means that Time Machine backups are a handy archive for the recovery of objects that have been deleted or compromised while Carbon Copy Cloner backups are my resource for total recovery in the event of a catastrophic failure.

Here’s how I do it:

My desktop (Mac Mini) has two desktop HDDs always attached, always on. While they are ‘always on’, the disks spin up and run only when actually in use. Whether this is a feature of the Mac OS, the backup software or the disks themselves I neither know nor care. One disk is reserved for automatic (hourly) Time Machine backups and provides easy data recovery when desired; the other is reserved for a daily scheduled Carbon Copy Cloner backup to provide a current bootable recovery if it should be needed.

In addition, I keep four portable SSDs offline and each attached only when in use. These are reserved for a daily rotation of on demand Carbon Copy Cloner bootable backups. Every week or more, the most recent one of the four is rotated out to a safe deposit box in a bank vault.

Each of my two MacBooks also has a desktop HDD reserved for Time Machine backups. These are attached and an explicit Time Machine backup created only when the MacBook is sitting on the desk to be charged every day or two. And each MacBook has its own set of four SDDs for a Carbon Copy Cloner backup scheme similar to that of the Mac Mini.

The Mac Mini is the repository of all of my digital objects, music, images, correspondence, financial records and so on, going back for decades. The MacBooks are only used for current work such as when I might want to work on this year’s tax return while sitting in my recliner. Accordingly I want a different subset of the files from the Mac Mini available on the MacBook depending on what I might be working on. Carbon Copy Cloner handles that for me nicely. I simply define Carbon Copy Cloner tasks to copy the needed objects across my home Wi-Fi from Mac Mini to MacBook before beginning work and back again when through.

As you may be aware, Apple offers a wide range of free classroom education for the implementation and use of its products. More information as well as scheduling and availability can be found at Apple’s web site. As a former Microsoft user, it’s possible that you could benefit from some of those structured offerings as a wholistic orientation to the Apple way of doing things.

Finally, it’s well to remember that this is a help forum, not a debating page; we all should be careful to keep it simple and civil while harvesting the benefit of our collective knowledge and experience.

 

[honestone]

Excellent explanation! You certainly have things covered very, very well.

And as for "Finally, it’s well to remember that this is a help forum, not a debating page; we all should be careful to keep it simple and civil while harvesting the benefit of our collective knowledge and experience.", along with that is showing some simple common courtesy in thanking folks for assistance, along with letting them know if their advice worked as stated. There are numerous instances on these forums where someone comes for help, assistance is provided, but then nothing. There is even a thread about this very issue called "Unanswered Threads" (or something like that), but I can't find it now.

I suspect it took you quite a lot of time to write up that excellent synopsis above. I know that I make time for detailed assistance, along with making a concerted effort for such posts to be accurate, understandable, and to some degree concise. Again, I point to your post above as an example of just that.

 

[Cory Cooper]

Hello,

That is simply the nature of customer service and support. There is never a requirement for folks to thank us volunteer members for the help and support we provide, nor is there a requirement for folks to respond to every post we make, or let us know if the suggested solution worked or not. Yes, it is nice when those things happen, but if they don’t…c’est la vie.

Regardless, this discussion shouldn’t be hijacking the thread’s original issue regarding Time Machine.

C

 

[bladerunner714]

honestone and Cory Cooper both: Thanks for your acknowledgement and kind words and especially thanks for your contributions here. We all benefit from the exchange of ideas and any expression of appreciation is always welcome.

 

[honestone]

While that may be the nature of customer service and support, successful organizations make a concerted effort to retain their customers, and thus will strive to provide excellent customer service and support. If not, then customers will be driven away. In the case of these forums, it is just exercising common sense and common courtesy. I know I make a concerted effort to do that, and there are others that do the same.

One of my tag lines says it perfectly: Go along, and we'll get along.

OK, back to Time Machine, SuperDuper!, and Carbon Copy Cloner.

 

[honestone]

You're welcome, bladerunner714. Yes, having folks show appreciation for one's efforts is definitely welcome! I could not have said it any better.