Printer repairing permissions?

[honestone]

Wow, you really are a master of technology! I've already learned so much about software I had no idea about.

May I ask out of curiosity - in canon website (the link you posted), it allows to check if there are drivers that match OS. Would it be dangerous for example, for El Capitan OS to try and install drivers meant for Lion? Or would the issue just be if it works or not?
I'm just wondering if there is more to dividing drivers by OS than incompatibility.

I don't think that would be a good idea, but maybe it can't hurt. Surprisingly, it does list driver software for Mac OS 10.5 through 10.7 (the same), and scanner driver software for OS 10.2 through 10.7 (again the same):

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...160?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

Yet, for any "further" OS (ie, 10.8, 10.9, 10.10, 10.11, and 10.12) it says this:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...160?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

I just don't know if that will work. Do you have the scanner driver software it lists in that first link installed? You stated that the scanning functionality is working, even with El Capitan.

 

[Jospehus]

I don't think that would be a good idea, but maybe it can't hurt. Surprisingly, it does list driver software for Mac OS 10.5 through 10.7 (the same), and scanner driver software for OS 10.2 through 10.7 (again the same):

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...160?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

Yet, for any "further" OS (ie, 10.8, 10.9, 10.10, 10.11, and 10.12) it says this:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...160?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

I just don't know if that will work. Do you have the scanner driver software it lists in that first link installed? You stated that the scanning functionality is working, even with El Capitan.

I got scanner working using old installation CD. The CD itself says "CANON INC 2006" I don't know if that means it was released 2006, therefore even older than the software on Canon website. I installed it before finding out there are so many differences between OS's, assuming system would just tell me if it won't work, not worried it might cause issues...

Do you think it would damage Mac? The software I have on right now and potentially the idea of using the one on canon site? Should I remove the one I got from CD?
Scanner software is in App Folder - if I'd remove it, just drag and drop to trash?
I'm not sure where to look for if CD did drop useless printer drivers into system - if I find them, also drag and drop to trash?

 

[honestone]

I got scanner working using old installation CD. The CD itself says "CANON INC 2006" I don't know if that means it was released 2006, therefore even older than the software on Canon website. I installed it before finding out there are so many differences between OS's, assuming system would just tell me if it won't work, not worried it might cause issues...

Do you think it would damage Mac? The software I have on right now and potentially the idea of using the one on canon site? Should I remove the one I got from CD?
Scanner software is in App Folder - if I'd remove it, just drag and drop to trash?
I'm not sure where to look for if CD did drop useless printer drivers into system - if I find them, also drag and drop to trash?

You previously stated that the scanner works on your Mac right now, so for whatever scanning drivers/software is on your system now, I would not "mess" with it. As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Again, on Canon's site, for your printer, here is what it says regarding Printer Drivers and Scanner Drivers for Lion (OS 10.7):

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...160?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

Obviously, Canon updated the Scanning Drivers beyond what is on the CD you have, as the version is 12.13.3, with a date of 8/5/11. Another interesting fact is that printer was initially designed to with Mac OS 10.2.8 through 10.4.x:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...160?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

It thus appears they were able to "upgrade" it (I guess via the drivers/software) to work with OS 10.5 through 10.7 for the Printer Driver, and OS 10.2 through 10.7 for the Scanner driver. Note also that for the EasyPhotoPrint EX software, V4.7.1 even works with OS 10.12, Sierra:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...160?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

It also works with just about all prior Mac OSs.

Have you tried downloading and installing the Printer Driver software, MP160 CUPS Printer Driver Ver. 10.51.2.0, from Canon's site? (It's on that first link I posted above). It will not harm your system.

Finally, is there a folder entitled "Canon Utilities" within the Applications folder? There is one on my Mac MIni, which is the machine I have the printer connected to. If it's there, that should contain the versions of the Printer, Scanning, and EasyPhoto drivers/software.

 

[Jospehus]

You previously stated that the scanner works on your Mac right now, so for whatever scanning drivers/software is on your system now, I would not "mess" with it. As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

As trying to put newer version in might mean I can't use scanner at all?
There won't be any potential security holes if the software is just that old, that might have been fixed in the newer drivers on the website?

Have you tried downloading and installing the Printer Driver software, MP160 CUPS Printer Driver Ver. 10.51.2.0, from Canon's site? (It's on that first link I posted above). It will not harm your system.

I'll try it next. I wanted to make sure it was safe to try. I'll notify of how it goes!

Finally, is there a folder entitled "Canon Utilities" within the Applications folder? There is one on my Mac MIni, which is the machine I have the printer connected to. If it's there, that should contain the versions of the Printer, Scanning, and EasyPhoto drivers/software.

Yes, there is folder and that contains the scanner software. So printer drivers should also appear there? Not in library folders or anywhere else? In this case, seems like canon printer software does not exist in my Mac at this moment.

 

[honestone]

As trying to put newer version in might mean I can't use scanner at all?
There won't be any potential security holes if the software is just that old, that might have been fixed in the newer drivers on the website?

You could try and do a google search to see why that newest version was released.

Yes, there is folder and that contains the scanner software. So printer drivers should also appear there? Not in library folders or anywhere else? In this case, seems like canon printer software does not exist in my Mac at this moment.

Yeah, they are not there. Here is where they are located:

Library > Printers > PPDs > Contents > Resources

That Library folder is the one at the "root" level, ie., the same level as the Applications, Users, etc. folders. Also, inside that Printers folder, you might see folders for various printer companies. Mine has folders for Canon and Epson. There is also a "plist" document entitled "InstalledPrinters.plist", and when I click on it, I can see the name of my printer there.

 

[Jospehus]

You could try and do a google search to see why that newest version was released.



Yeah, they are not there. Here is where they are located:

Library > Printers > PPDs > Contents > Resources

That Library folder is the one at the "root" level, ie., the same level as the Applications, Users, etc. folders. Also, inside that Printers folder, you might see folders for various printer companies. Mine has folders for Canon and Epson. There is also a "plist" document entitled "InstalledPrinters.plist", and when I click on it, I can see the name of my printer there.

Should I delete canon drivers from there then before trying new software? Should I remove "InstalledPrinters.plist" file or let it stay?
Is it safe to just install the new drivers without deleting the old files and see if they work?

 

[honestone]

Should I delete canon drivers from there then before trying new software? Should I remove "InstalledPrinters.plist" file or let it stay?
Is it safe to just install the new drivers without deleting the old files and see if they work?

No, I would leave things as they are. Hopefully, when you install that software, it will supersede whatever is there already.

 

[Jospehus]

No, I would leave things as they are. Hopefully, when you install that software, it will supersede whatever is there already.

Thank you so much for all the assistance!

Good news: printer and scanner both work, at least for now.

If I may bother you some more, I'll list the steps I took along with screenshots. If possible, can you please check them and look if everything looks fine? Plus there was one weird message I'd like to ask about in the end.

(Have to post two messages, it won't let me post it in one go)

I did not delete anything from printer folders, but as the Canon folder in App Folder came from the installation CD, I dragged that to trash and deleted, bit worried it might offend the newer software.

Checking the printer location, I actually did not see any drivers for Canon. Must have checked something wrong before. Though not sure what en.lproj folder is meant to be.

Went to Canon site...

Got this file for scanner:
Well, this just means Canon hasn't paid to Apple for being one of their accepted developers?

Ran software

So after restart, installed the printer software.
Same security alert - again nothing to worry about, just Canon not being part of Apple's accepted developers?

Starting installing

How deeply do you read license agreements? I skimmed over and saved a version using "save" button to force myself to read it through later. Would there be any meaning running finger over every last sentence?

 

[Jospehus]

No, I would leave things as they are. Hopefully, when you install that software, it will supersede whatever is there already.

Part II

Wanting my precious password again!

And here comes the weird part - what even is "lipo" command? I clicked "not now". At least I think I chose "not now" and it didn't do anything afterwards so likely I managed to hit the right button.
But what even is it? Do I need it? Printer seemed to work fine without.

Installation successful!

Problem came when I tried to scan. Printing worked fine, but there was no scan button. Googling I found out it is common issue with newer OSs and I need to manually open scanner from Canon folder. ... That I just deleted. -_- So had to go and dig out the old installation CD once again.

I chose only MP Navigator, the scanning part.

(This is how the old CD looks when opened)

So, how does it look overall? Legitimate software and it works too!

I installed the newer scanner software, but as it did not grant me Canon Folder in App Folder, I had no choice to install scanner software from old installation CD. Was that OK to do or could I have ruined something by installing old after new? I did not see any messages or something warning me.

I have to thank you for guiding me to right path!

 

[honestone]

Wonderful! Glad you got the printer working, as far as printing was/is concerned. Funny that a version of the Printer Drivers/software designed for an older OS works well with Sierra.

As far as using the "newer" scanning software, I would not worry about it. From what you are saying, it is working fine, that is, using an older version of the Printer drivers/software, along with a "newer" (but reliable) version of the scanning software.

Yeah, that "unaccepted" developer stuff definitely is bogus! I have the same issue with Onyx, and it has been around forever! Just because a developer does not "register" their product with Apple/the App Store does not mean it is a "bad" product. In both your case (the Canon stuff) and mine (Onyx), they work fine. I actually just recently found another way to get around that BS with Apple. Instead of double clicking on the app's icon the first time, just press the right button on the mouse. A menu of options then appears, and one just needs to select Open. Thereafter, it will launch normally, ie, either double click the icon, or in my case, I just click Onyx's icon I have in the Dock. Works like a charm!

Again, so pleased you got things working!

 

[Jospehus]

Wonderful! Glad you got the printer working, as far as printing was/is concerned. Funny that a version of the Printer Drivers/software designed for an older OS works well with Sierra.

As far as using the "newer" scanning software, I would not worry about it. From what you are saying, it is working fine, that is, using an older version of the Printer drivers/software, along with a "newer" (but reliable) version of the scanning software.

Yeah, that "unaccepted" developer stuff definitely is bogus! I have the same issue with Onyx, and it has been around forever! Just because a developer does not "register" their product with Apple/the App Store does not mean it is a "bad" product. In both your case (the Canon stuff) and mine (Onyx), they work fine. I actually just recently found another way to get around that BS with Apple. Instead of double clicking on the app's icon the first time, just press the right button on the mouse. A menu of options then appears, and one just needs to select Open. Thereafter, it will launch normally, ie, either double click the icon, or in my case, I just click Onyx's icon I have in the Dock. Works like a charm!

Again, so pleased you got things working!

I'm in El Capitan actually. I kind of despise Sierra after it didn't like my monitor...
The printer software is newer from canon website. I installed newer scanning one as well from website, but as there was no folder or button, installed older scanning software on top from old installation CD, without removing newer one. So doing that, if there was no warning message, would not harm things?

Actually I only know about the right-click>open version. That's what I've been using.

Thank you again for guiding me through! Well, if the screenshots looked all legitimate canon stuff and it works, yeah! No worries any more!
It seems to work without that weird lipo command I refused to install as well. Phew, these were kind of tiring days with all the worry.

 

[honestone]

Sounds good! Sorry about my confusion with "new" and "old". Also, here is what lipo means (via a google search):

"lipo (aptly named) is a utility that manipulates universal binaries in Mac OS X. A lot of (almost all) programs these days ship, or download as “Universal”, meaning they have binary code that both the powerpc and the intel chips can understand."

Also, sorry about my confusion with the Mac OS. Still baffling, though, why El Capitan does not contain the driver software for your printer.

Oh well, at least it's working, which is the important thing!

I did miss one thing, though. You stated that "Sierra didn't like my monitor". Funny, as I have my trusty old Sony 19" monitor connected to my Mac Mini, and no matter what OS I have used with the machine (Yosemite, El Capitan, and now Sierra), I have no issues (the monitor is almost 17 years old!). What brand monitor do you have, and how is it connected to your Mac Mini?

 

[Jospehus]

Sounds good! Sorry about my confusion with "new" and "old". Also, here is what lipo means (via a google search):

"lipo (aptly named) is a utility that manipulates universal binaries in Mac OS X. A lot of (almost all) programs these days ship, or download as “Universal”, meaning they have binary code that both the powerpc and the intel chips can understand."

Well... from what I get from this, printer driver wanted to have ability to manipulate some codes in OSX. But for now it doesn't look like I need something like this. Doesn't look like it would cause instability if it is missing - I mean, if the printer works without it, it can't be that important?

Also, sorry about my confusion with the Mac OS. Still baffling, though, why El Capitan does not contain the driver software for your printer.

Oh well, at least it's working, which is the important thing!

I did miss one thing, though. You stated that "Sierra didn't like my monitor". Funny, as I have my trusty old Sony 19" monitor connected to my Mac Mini, and no matter what OS I have used with the machine (Yosemite, El Capitan, and now Sierra), I have no issues (the monitor is almost 17 years old!). What brand monitor do you have, and how is it connected to your Mac Mini?

No need to apologize! I've typed a lot of confusing text these past few days!

I bought this Mini with Yosemite, then came El Capitan and everything worked. But with Sierra, it was a mess. I have Philips 223V, connected with VGA. As Mini does not have such port, I have adapter just for Mac.
http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter

When Sierra came, I installed it, restart, everything fine. But next time, no picture. Mac working, but monitor black. I discovered it was possible to start with Recovery Mode (CMD+R), then restart and have normal log in. Next time same damn thing. I tried everything, read forums, found out other people had similar problems, but their solutions never worked for me.

Tried solutions from here:
http://osxdaily.com/2016/09/24/troubleshooting-macos-sierra-problems/

1. Disconnect all USB cables and USB devices from the Mac, aside from a mouse or keyboard if applicable
2. Shutdown the Mac
3. Reset SMC
4. Reset NVRAM/PRAM
5. Boot as usual

Nothing worked. Had to revert back to El Capitan and voila! Everything works again. I'm waiting for OS after Sierra to appear, before upgrading, not touching that thing again...

 

[honestone]

I assume you started with the initial release of Sierra, OS 10.12. There have been two subsequent updates, the most recent being OS 10.12.2. Strange that everything was fine the first time you booted up, but issues on subsequent tries. When you booted to the (hidden) Recovery HD partition, what happened regarding the monitor?

Also, when you upgraded from Yosemite to El Capitan, did you do "an upgrade in place"? That is, without doing an Erase and Format of your internal drive, then a clean, "virgin" installation of El Capitan? Similar question when you upgraded from El Capitan to Sierra.

Myself, for both of those upgrades, I did not "upgrade in place". I first did one final "cleaning" of each prior OS, then did my (normal) SuperDuper! backups to two external devices. I then re-booted from the backup (SuperDuper! makes a bootable backup/clone. It's almost like having another machine!), used Disk Utility there to Erase and Format my internal drive (SSD), did a clean, "virgin" installation of the new OS, and finally used Migration Assistant to "migrate"/copy needed stuff from the backup to the internal SSD. (Migration Assistant is offered right after the completion of the OS installation). I then re-started from the internal SSD, and I was in business. I did this for both of my Macs, and for both of the most recent OS upgrades, ie, Yosemite to El Capitan, and more recently, El Capitan to Sierra. Of course, when I did that, I insured that any third party applications I have were compatible with the new OS. Usually, I've had to download updates to such software (in the case of Onyx, the developer has separate versions for each Mac OS).

I will say, though, that for these last two Mac OS "upgrades", I did not do it until the "v1" (ie, OS 10.11.1, and OS 10.12.1) of the new OS came out. The reason for that is two of my critical third party applications were not immediately upgraded for "new" OS compatibility. In fact, for upgrading to Sierra, I had to wait more than 2 months after OS 10.12 came out, as TechTool Pro was not upgraded until late last month. The challenging one will be when Apple makes significant changes to their File System (ie, the Finder), and that is supposed to happen "soon", ie, sometime early next year, as an upgrade to Sierra (ie, not a new OS). It's going to be interesting (and I suspect challenging) to see what third party developers need to do with their software for it to be compatible with that "new" structure. For me, that involves at least 5 products: 1Password, SuperDuper!, Office 2016, TechTool Pro, and Onyx. There might also be some others.

I doubt that waiting for the next OS release will resolve the issues with your monitor. I have been using my monitor since February 2004, with a MacPro desktop (no adapter needed), and now my Mac Mini (needs an adapter, as you are aware), and no matter which OS, it has worked, and continues to work, fine.

In actuality, Sierra does not contain anything "vital" for my needs. Also, it looks like the critical third party software I use will still be compatible with even prior releases of the Mac OS for "some time". So, maybe sticking with El Capitan, in your case, is good enough, at least for now.

 

[Jospehus]

I assume you started with the initial release of Sierra, OS 10.12. There have been two subsequent updates, the most recent being OS 10.12.2. Strange that everything was fine the first time you booted up, but issues on subsequent tries. When you booted to the (hidden) Recovery HD partition, what happened regarding the monitor?

In Recovery, monitor was functioning well. When restarting from Recovery, also good. But if I booted from shut down Mac, monitor was black.

Also, when you upgraded from Yosemite to El Capitan, did you do "an upgrade in place"? That is, without doing and Erase and Format of your internal drive, then a clean, "virgin" installation of El Capitan? Similar question when you upgraded from El Capitan to Sierra.

I admit, being newcomer to Mac, I actually did not even notice the upgrade from Yosemite to El Capitan at first. Guess it was just another system update and suddenly OS name had changed. So both upgrades were in place, without doing any erase and format.

Myself, for both of those upgrades, I did not "upgrade in place". I first did one final "cleaning" of each prior OS, then did my (normal) SuperDuper! backups to two external devices. I then re-booted from the backup (SuperDuper! makes a bootable backup/clone. It's almost like having another machine!), used Disk Utility there to Erase and Format my internal drive (SSD), did a clean, "virgin" installation of the new OS, and finally used Migration Assistant to "migrate"/copy needed stuff from the backup to the internal SSD. (Migration Assistant is offered right after the completion of the OS installation). I then re-started from the internal SSD, and I was in business. I did this for both of my Macs, and for both of the most recent OS upgrades, ie, Yosemite to El Capitan, and more recently, El Capitan to Sierra.

This system sounds very scientific. I'm still learning ins and outs of Mac, but I'll store this information - need to be more precise in my actions to not get caught off guard by technology this time.

I will say, though, that for these last two Mac OS "upgrades", I did not do it until the "v1" (ie, OS 10.11.1, and OS 10.12.1) of the new OS came out. The reason for that is two of my critical third party applications were not immediately upgraded for "new" OS compatibility. In fact, for upgrading to Sierra, I had to wait more than 2 months after OS 10.12 came out, as TechTool Pro was not upgraded until late last month. The challenging one will be when Apple makes significant changes to their File System (ie, the Finder), and that is supposed to happen "soon", ie, sometime early next year, as an upgrade to Sierra (ie, not a new OS). It's going to be interesting (and I suspect challenging) to see what third party developers need to do with their software for it to be compatible with that "new" structure. For me, that involves at least 5 products: 1Password, SuperDuper!, Office 2016, TechTool Pro, and Onyx. There might also be some others.

Thanks for giving me heads up! If there will be big changes, I might be affected as well.

I doubt that waiting for the next OS release will resolve the issues with your monitor. I have been using my monitor since February 2004, with a MacPro desktop (no adapter needed), and now my Mac Mini (needs an adapter, as you are aware), and no matter which OS, it has worked, and continues to work, fine.

In actuality, Sierra does not contain anything "vital" for my needs. Also, it looks like the critical third party software I use will still be compatible with even prior releases of the Mac OS for "some time". So, maybe sticking with El Capitan, in your case, is good enough, at least for now.

Well, I'm hoping that whatever issues Sierra had with my monitor, will be smoothed out in later versions. After reading forums I came to conclusion this error happened by chance and no one seemed to know why some Macs got this and others not.

The security updates cover last 3 OS? So when next one comes up, El Capitan is still supported, but when another one comes out, I should definitely move?

 

[honestone]

If you are "game", you could try and "move" to Sierra, OS 10.12.2 (latest version). It does take some planning, along with needing some additional software. SuperDuper! is available in "demo" mode, although it runs slower than in paid mode (it only costs $27.95). I prefer it WAY MORE over Time Machine, as it makes a bootable backup. Recovery is much, much easier (and for me, smoother) than with a Time Machine backup. If such a move still causes issues, you'll be able to revert back to your current "system".

If you don't mind me asking, have you done any disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs? And if you have, what software do you use for it?

Also, are you making any backups to an external device? And if so, what software are you using?

Given that you have done two upgrades in place, it would also be good if you invested in a "robust" disk cleanup/maintenance/repair program (more robust than Disk Utility). As I mentioned above, I have TechTool Pro. I have been using it for a number of years, and it is an excellent utility program. Onyx is another good one, and that one is free! I would think that your system needs some "cleaning", unless you have been doing a lot already. But, it can always use more.

As for "The security updates cover last 3 OS? So when next one comes up, El Capitan is still supported, but when another one comes out, I should definitely move?", yes, there are a number of security updates made, both within the same OS (ie, like going from OS 10.11 to OS 10.11.1, and so forth), as well as from one OS to another. It seems that for the "near" future, given that El Capitan is a recent OS, software that gets updated by third party developers will (most likely) still be compatible with El Capitan. But that is no guarantee.

 

[Jospehus]

If you are "game", you could try and "move" to Sierra, OS 10.12.2 (latest version). It does take some planning, along with needing some additional software. SuperDuper! is available in "demo" mode, although it runs slower than in paid mode (it only costs $27.95). I prefer it WAY MORE over Time Machine, as it makes a bootable backup. Recovery is much, much easier (and for me, smoother) than with a Time Machine backup. If such a move still causes issues, you'll be able to revert back to your current "system".

If you don't mind me asking, have you done any disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs? And if you have, what software do you use for it?

Also, are you making any backups to an external device? And if so, what software are you using?

I only knew about Disk Utility that I also regularly use in both Recovery Mode and usual log-in mode.

Until now I made back ups of my files manually, just copying them to external hard drive, just like I did in Windows. But that hard drive is too full to even try to use it with Time Machine. I was planning on buying new one to try Time Machine out as that was what I heard about most.

So difference between SuperDuper! and Time Machine is being bootable backup? Like separate machine itself?
SuperDuper! is also then easier to use when needing to revert to old settings/image?

Given that you have done two upgrades in place, it would also be good if you invested in a "robust" disk cleanup/maintenance/repair program (more robust than Disk Utility). As I mentioned above, I have TechTool Pro. I have been using it for a number of years, and it is an excellent utility program. Onyx is another good one, and that one is free! I would think that your system needs some "cleaning", unless you have been doing a lot already. But, it can always use more.

Onyx, huh... I didn't even know Mac system would need cleaning tools besides Disk Utility. In every forum I've looked into, no one mention Onyx. Thanks!

What happens if one doesn't use good cleaning tools? Errors piling up and system crashing in the end?

As for "The security updates cover last 3 OS? So when next one comes up, El Capitan is still supported, but when another one comes out, I should definitely move?", yes, there are a number of security updates made, both within the same OS (ie, like going from OS 10.11 to OS 10.11.1, and so forth), as well as from one OS to another. It seems that for the "near" future, given that El Capitan is a recent OS, software that gets updated by third party developers will (most likely) still be compatible with El Capitan. But that is no guarantee.

Do you check the sites of third party software to see what versions are available and what is compatible? As in, no app really notifies user that it has updates it can't install with old OS?

 

[honestone]

I only knew about Disk Utility that I also regularly use in both Recovery Mode and usual log-in mode.

Well, at least you did that. But, there is much, much more you need to do. Also, do you do daily cleanup? For example, do you delete EMails you no longer need right away? Unfortunately, most EMail software does not permanently delete ones you delete. I had been using Outlook 2011, and now Outlook 2016, and there are specific ways for having deleted EMails permanently removed (I of course used the procedure for Outlook 2011, and now using it for Outlook 2016). Also, if you download and install an update for a piece of software, do you get rid of the prior update? No reason for it to be left around, as long as the newer update works.

Until now I made back ups of my files manually, just copying them to external hard drive, just like I did in Windows. But that hard drive is too full to even try to use it with Time Machine. I was planning on buying new one to try Time Machine out as that was what I heard about most.

Just copying stuff is definitely not enough. But, do you need all that stuff on your current external drive? Also, how old is it, what is the make and model, and how do you have it connected to your Mac? (I suspect via USB). Do you know how much disk space you are using on your current internal drive?

If you do purchase a new external drive, you might want to consider an SSD. Yes, they are somewhat expensive, but how much you need to spend depends upon the answers to my questions above.

So difference between SuperDuper! and Time Machine is being bootable backup? Like separate machine itself?
SuperDuper! is also then easier to use when needing to revert to old settings/image?

MOST DEFINITELY! I would not be without it!

Onyx, huh... I didn't even know Mac system would need cleaning tools besides Disk Utility. In every forum I've looked into, no one mention Onyx. Thanks!

Yeah, most folks don't know about it (and other useful third party products, even ones for free!).

What happens if one doesn't use good cleaning tools? Errors piling up and system crashing in the end?

Most definitely! I suspect that is a possible cause as to why your monitor worked with Sierra in Recovery Mode, but not in normal mode. That situation points to a software issue, but not specifically due to Sierra.

I always equate doing maintenance on computers with doing maintenance on vehicles. No matter how much additional technology becomes available on cars, there is still a need to do some basic maintenance on one's own (and in the process, learning stuff about their cars). One of the simplest (and effective) tasks is to check the air pressure in tires. A couple of more are changing the cabin air filter, and changing the air filter. I have a Battery Tender, and I use it once a month to "charge up" the batteries on both of our cars. Car batteries these days are (supposedly) maintenance free, and it is difficult, ay best, to tell when they are getting low on a charge. The Battery Tender makes that one less thing to worry about.

Do you check the sites of third party software to see what versions are available and what is compatible? As in, no app really notifies user that it has updates it can't install with old OS?

I find out in a number of ways. Sometimes, I am "automatically" alerted when a new version is available. In some other instances, there is a "Check For Updates" option available, and I use that. One other way is that I visit the site www.macupdate.com a few times a day, and there are times updates for software I use is posted there (but I do not download such stuff from there). Finally, once in a while I will visit the developer's site to see what is going on.

Additionally, do you keep your third party software up to date? That is critical too.

 

[Jospehus]

Well, at least you did that. But, there is much, much more you need to do. Also, do you do daily cleanup? For example, do you delete EMails you no longer need right away? Unfortunately, most EMail software does not permanently delete ones you delete. I had been using Outlook 2011, and now Outlook 2016, and there are specific ways for having deleted EMails permanently removed (I of course used the procedure for Outlook 2011, and now using it for Outlook 2016). Also, if you download and install an update for a piece of software, do you get rid of the prior update? No reason for it to be left around, as long as the newer update works.

My email software is Thunderbird (and I delete old mails quick), but that is for more used accounts. I tend to log in directly to mail server (but delete old mail from there fast as well).

What do you mean by prior update? For example, Malwarebytes updated itself and simply installed the new update on top of the old one. I think VLC Player does it do. LibreOffice... actually, I don't remember if LibreOffice has wanted update while I've been using this Mac. In Windows it just installs on top of old one, not leaving old files lying around.

Actually, what should I do in this case? What to delete?

Just copying stuff is definitely not enough. But, do you need all that stuff on your current external drive? Also, how old is it, what is the make and model, and how do you have it connected to your Mac? (I suspect via USB). Do you know how much disk space you are using on your current internal drive?

If you do purchase a new external drive, you might want to consider an SSD. Yes, they are somewhat expensive, but how much you need to spend depends upon the answers to my questions above.

I have all my necessary photos, images, videos in external drive. Nothing I can delete.
That is old... I don't remember exactly but maybe 9 years... does external hard drive expire by itself when not used? In past I used it only once a month or so. It's Verbatim, 1000 GB, 200 GB free right now, connected through USB.

On internal drive, it's bit over 50GB. How much should I leave empty?

SSD's last longer compared to older hard drives?

Yeah, most folks don't know about it (and other useful third party products, even ones for free!).

Is it just me or are Apple forums usually quite... rigid, when it comes to what is accepted and what not?
Some get very (angrily) heated when you even ask about additional third party software...
By the way, what is your opinion on real time malware scanner apps? I only use Malwarebytes as manual scanner.

Most definitely! I suspect that is a possible cause as to why your monitor worked with Sierra in Recovery Mode, but not in normal mode. That situation points to a software issue, but not specifically due to Sierra.

I always equate doing maintenance on computers with doing maintenance on vehicles. No matter how much additional technology becomes available on cars, there is still a need to do some basic maintenance on one's own (and in the process, learning stuff about their cars). One of the simplest (and effective) tasks is to check the air pressure in tires. A couple of more are changing the cabin air filter, and changing the air filter. I have a Battery Tender, and I use it once a month to "charge up" the batteries on both of our cars. Car batteries these days are (supposedly) maintenance free, and it is difficult, ay best, to tell when they are getting low on a charge. The Battery Tender makes that one less thing to worry about.

So something about upgrade piled up errors that made Sierra say "nope, not want this screen"? Hm...

I find out in a number of ways. Sometimes, I am "automatically" alerted when a new version is available. In some other instances, there is a "Check For Updates" option available, and I use that. One other way is that I visit the site www.macupdate.com a few times a day, and there are times updates for software I use is posted there (but I do not download such stuff from there). Finally, once in a while I will visit the developer's site to see what is going on.

Additionally, do you keep your third party software up to date? That is critical too.

Because if third party software is not updated, it might cause system working errors for OS? Could they also compromise security?

Is it true then that macupdate downloads might be... not so good?

Malwarebytes and LibreOffice (at least in Windows) do tell me when update is ready. Same for Opera and Firefox. VLC Player and GIMP I have to check manually.

OH! I'd like to ask, are Firefox and Opera quarantine supporting apps like Safari or not? I keep seeing opposing answers.

 

[honestone]

My email software is Thunderbird (and I delete old mails quick), but that is for more used accounts. I tend to log in directly to mail server (but delete old mail from there fast as well).

What do you mean by prior update? For example, Malwarebytes updated itself and simply installed the new update on top of the old one. I think VLC Player does it do. LibreOffice... actually, I don't remember if LibreOffice has wanted update while I've been using this Mac. In Windows it just installs on top of old one, not leaving old files lying around.

Actually, what should I do in this case? What to delete?

I don't know if Thunderbird permanently deletes EMails that you delete.

Suppose you are using V10.2 of a piece of software, and that was via an update to V10.2. If the developer comes out with V10.3, and you install it, and it works, you can get rid of the V10.2 update file.

Yes, some software can update itself, but in most instances, one can download the update itself, apply it, and get rid of the prior one. For VLC Player, I have always downloaded the update and applied it myself.

I have all my necessary photos, images, videos in external drive. Nothing I can delete.
That is old... I don't remember exactly but maybe 9 years... does external hard drive expire by itself when not used? In past I used it only once a month or so. It's Verbatim, 1000 GB, 200 GB free right now, connected through USB.

On internal drive, it's bit over 50GB. How much should I leave empty?

SSD's last longer compared to older hard drives?

With you internal drive taking up only a bit over 50 Gig (how do you manage to keep it that small?), the 200 gig you have free on your external drive is more than enough for a backup. But, from what you are saying, that drive is rather old. While the drive should be OK, due to light use, I would be skeptical. That is where you need a product liek TechTool pro to check out that drive.

Yes, SSDs last longer, are much, much faster, and don't take up much desk space (assuming you put one inside an external enclosure).

Is it just me or are Apple forums usually quite... rigid, when it comes to what is accepted and what not?
Some get very (angrily) heated when you even ask about additional third party software...
By the way, what is your opinion on real time malware scanner apps? I only use Malwarebytes as manual scanner.

I have never needed to use anything else besides Malwarebytes.

So something about upgrade piled up errors that made Sierra say "nope, not want this screen"? Hm...

That si a distinct possibility.

Because if third party software is not updated, it might cause system working errors for OS? Could they also compromise security?

Yes, most definitely! Not sure about security, though, unless such updates contained security fixes.

Is it true then that macupdate downloads might be... not so good?

I don't like it because you are forced to use their installer. As I have mentioned, I tend to download updates on my own, and then do the installation on my own.

OH! I'd like to ask, are Firefox and Opera quarantine supporting apps like Safari or not? I keep seeing opposing answers.

I have never liked Safari, because it is just too slow. Up until about 7 months ago, I was using Firefox, which was fine. But Google Chrome is definitely a speed demon, and I like it. Opera is good also, faster than Firefox, but not as fast as Google Chrome.

I actually don't know what you mean by "Firefox and Opera quarantine supporting apps like Safari or not?".