Update from OS 10.12 to 10.12.2 Problem

[sathya]

@honestone I was just about to do the clean install, and a friend warned me thus:
"I recommend to use OS X 10.10.5 Yosemite, the last stable OS X.
OS X 10.11.x El Capitan is full of bugs and unstable.
macOS 10.12.x Sierra demands all the resources of the computer all the time, it was created for executives living 24x7 surrounded by all the Apple devices (iPhone, iWatch, iPad, MacBook, iCloud)."

This led me to search the internet where I found:
Here’s Why You Should Update to macOS Sierra:

1. Install if you have OS X El Capitan Problems
2. Install for Night Mode On Your Mac
3. Install if you have the 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar
4. Install if you need better security
5. Install macOS Sierra for Siri
6. Install for Better Messages & New Emoji
7. Install to Unlock with the Apple Watch
8. Install for Apple Pay on Mac
9. Install to get more storage space back

None of those are important reasons for me except security and more storage space, which might be enough to favoe Sierra.
I am mainly concerned with RAM as I use the Mac to control an musical instrument program which needs all the RAM I can give. The iMac has 16gB of RAM, but some of the instruments require almost that much to load. I would upgrade to 32gB, but for this iMac, 16 is max.
I just checked and Sierra is using 3.3 gBs, which is taking more than I would like, although I might live with it. Just restricts loading of large instruments.

I'm sure you will recommend Sierra, but just like to see your take on this. But I don't want to take much of your time, as you have already given me lots of attention. We all have our points of view, and there is nothing sacred about my friend's comments...
Thanks

 

[honestone]

I understand what you are saying, but you are the one that made the original jump from OS 10.7.5 to OS 10.12.0, and you upgraded in place. There have been other folks on these forums who wanted to make that same jump, but I, and others, advised against it, instead recommending an intermediate upgrade. I even stated that a couple of times in these exchanges between you and I.

There is nothing wrong with El Capitan, as there is nothing wrong with Yosemite, nor Sierra. The issue is that most folks want a "1 button/keystroke" solution to everything, and that includes OS upgrades. The keys to a successful upgrade, and subsequent "within the same OS" upgrades, are what I have stated above, and the procedure I follow:

1. Keep third party apps up to date. Whenever one wants/needs to obtain an update, DO NOT go through a third party. It is always, always best to go to the developer's/company's site for the upgrade. It has been known that using a third party to do this can cause issues, with some additional "crap" being installed. I ALWAYS, ALWAYS go to the developer's/company's site for such updates/upgrades. Yes, not a 1 button solution, but it is safe and secure.

2. Do disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs on a frequent basis.

3. Make backups often.

And of course, take the necessary steps when upgrading the Mac OS from one "type" to another, ie, Lion to Mountain Lion, Mavericks to Yosemite, El Capitan to Sierra, etc. And a clean, fresh, "virgin" installation of that newer Mac OS is the preferred way to go. Yes, a lot more work, and not a "1 keystroke" method, but one's chances of success are greatly improved.

So, I think it would be a wise move for you to first upgrade from Lion to Yosemite, but take the necessary steps. Once you are using Yosemite, follow the 3 things I mentioned just above. Then, when you are ready, you could upgrade to either El Capitan or Sierra.

I'll repeat one more time: there was/is nothing wrong with Yosemite, El Capitan, or Sierra, It's a matter of how committed one is to keeping their machines up to date, in "tip top" shape, etc. But that is going to require time and effort, not a 1 keystroke process.

Finally, regarding memory usage and the Mac OS, both of my Macs have only 4 gig of RAM, and typically Sierra takes about 2 gig of that. I don't have demanding processing needs like you do, but 3.3 gig for Sierra sounds like a lot. In actuality, there could be some apps that use memory at start up, even though they are not "active". For example, there are a couple of processes that run when I launch my machine that are not OS-related: TechTool Protection, 1 Password Mini, etc. Given that my machine usage is primarily EMails and surfing the net, I am fine with that. But, I understand what you are saying. You might want to check what stuff is launched when you start up your machine, Just go to Activity Monitor (contained inside the Utilities folder, which is within your Applications folder), and you can see how much RAM is taken up by various processes. Additionally, some apps to not "give up/release" all the memory they have used when one quits such apps. That seems to be less and less of an issue, though.

 

[Spawn_Dooley]

I have recently upgraded from Mac OS X 10.7 Lion to macOS 10.12 Sierra. Basically I bought a new iMac hence the huge jump. I absolutely love Sierra. I don't have all the additional Apple devices, only an older iPhone. But Sierra is fabulous, can't see anything that I don't like or anything that I can't get around to making it how I like it. There will always be those articles on why you shouldn't do this or that. Sierra has been around for a while now, we're up to 10.12.4 so I would never upgrade unless an OS version was at least at .3 or .4 that's my 2¢ worth.

 

[honestone]

So when you purchased the new iMac, it came with OS 10.7? That seems strange. But yeah, Sierra works fine for me, although I started with the first upgrade, OS 10.12.1. I am up to OS 10.12.4, and it still is solid.

 

[Spawn_Dooley]

I was stuck on 10.7 until I purchased the new iMac which comes with 10.12 so it was a huge leap in versions for me.

 

[honestone]

Understand. Thus, you did not upgrade from OS 10.7 to OS 10.12.3 on your old machine. The OP wants to upgrade the OS on his current machine. That of course requires preparation. But still, your comments about Sierra are accurate.

 

[sathya]

Looks like the transfer went well. However, it also looks like the problem with the HD space was not just due to corrupted OS download as I had thought. I was warned by someone that the "About this Mac...Storage" data is misleading. Now I see that it counts my musical instrument data as "system".
However, the drive is now about 100 gigs lighter and all working well.
Thanks for the help.

 

[honestone]

Sounds good.

So, did you do the clean, fresh installation of Yosemite, and then "migrated"/copies your needed "stuff" from your backup? Also, what about your third party apps? Did any of them need to be upgraded for Yosemite compatibility?

Additionally, what did Disk Utility reveal about your internal hard drive? And, did you download and use Onyx?

 

[sathya]

I was not able to get Yosemite (the person finally responded today), so I loaded 10.12.4.
I thought it would be easy to get back the applications, but am going slowly one by one, as I will not
reload everything I had (leaving out seldom used apps). So first I tried Skype from Time Machine backup.
It opened and immediately quit. Same for the CloneCopy version. I do not want the latest version of Skype. I want what I had (version 6.15) which was working fine with 10.12.4, but can't get it to work now. Is there something here I am not understanding?
I was going to get Onyx today, but really need to use Skype. I can use another computer for that.
Thanks

 

[honestone]

So, did you first go use Disk Utility to check out the "health" of the drive? If so, what did it tell you?

Secondly, assuming things were fine, did you use Disk Utility to Erase and Format your drive, and then did a clean, fresh, "virgin" installation of OS 10.12.4?

Third, I assume you did not initially "migrate"/copy anything form any of your backups, preferring to do a one by one installation of software? Is that correct?

Fourth, by "the CloneCopy version", do you mean Carbon Copy Cloner? If that's the case, you need at least version 4.1.10 for Sierra compatibility:

https://bombich.com/blog/2016/06/13/ccc-4-support-macos-sierra

However, it looks like the latest version is 4.1.13, which you can get by clicking on where it says "Download it here", at the top of this link:

https://bombich.com/

As for Skype, according to this:

https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10328/what-do-i-need-to-start-using-skype

you need V7.37. You cannot use V6.15 with Sierra (at least according to various Skype "links".

As for Onyx, that is a completely different type of product than Skype. Onyx is a utility that you should use for various, useful cleaning tasks, along with Repairing Permissions. Onyx is useful whether you have Skype or not.

 

[sathya]

So, did you first go use Disk Utility to check out the "health" of the drive? If so, what did it tell you?
Secondly, assuming things were fine, did you use Disk Utility to Erase and Format your drive, and then did a clean, fresh, "virgin" installation of OS 10.12.4?
Yes I did all you mention. No issues were found...

Third, I assume you did not initially "migrate"/copy anything form any of your backups, preferring to do a one by one installation of software? Is that correct?
Yes, correct.

As for Skype, according to this:

https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10328/what-do-i-need-to-start-using-skype

you need V7.37. You cannot use V6.15 with Sierra (at least according to various Skype "links".
Well V6.15 WAS working before I erased the drive. Just used it a few days before. Guess I'll have to upgrade.

As for Onyx, that is a completely different type of product than Skype. Onyx is a utility that you should use for various, useful cleaning tasks, along with Repairing Permissions. Onyx is useful whether you have Skype or not.
I don't understand your comment. Of course OnyX is not in any way related to Skype. I know what it is to be used for.

Just got a newer version of Skype working. I read that others had similar issues, but just WHY it worked before with 10.12.4 and now 6.15 will no longer work is a mystery.

 

[honestone]

As for Onyx, that is a completely different type of product than Skype. Onyx is a utility that you should use for various, useful cleaning tasks, along with Repairing Permissions. Onyx is useful whether you have Skype or not.
I don't understand your comment. Of course OnyX is not in any way related to Skype. I know what it is to be used for.

Because here is what you originally stated:

"I was going to get Onyx today, but really need to use Skype. I can use another computer for that.".

And especially the part about using another computer for Onyx. That was just baffling!

Now, what about Carbon Copy Cloner? Were you able to get that resolved?

And, it looks like what your friend stated:

"macOS 10.12.x Sierra demands all the resources of the computer all the time, it was created for executives living 24x7 surrounded by all the Apple devices (iPhone, iWatch, iPad, MacBook, iCloud)."

is definitely not accurate, as you seem to be using Sierra just fine.

 

[sathya]

"I was going to get Onyx today, but really need to use Skype. I can use another computer for that.".
Poor choice of syntax. What the final "that" referred to was using Skype, not OnyX

 

[honestone]

Understand. But Onyx is a very useful program.

Also, what about Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC)? As I suspect you already know, backups are critical, and assuming you use CCC, that's an excellent choice, as (just like SuperDuper!) it makes a bootable backup/clone. However, it is still important and necessary for you to perform "periodic" disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs.

 

[sathya]

You did not understand what I meant.
I KNOW that OnyX is useful and intend to use it, but my priority at the time of writing was to use Skype
to set an appointment with someone. I never said I would not do maintenance or backups. I used to backup
every day, but stopped when I upgraded the first time from 10.7 due to a misunderstanding.

 

[honestone]

Fine. But what about Carbon Copy Cloner? You STILL have not clarified your earlier remark about "Same for the CloneCopy version". From that quote, I gather you meant your previous "clone/copy". But, do you have the most recent version of CCC?

Also, it looks like OS 10.12.4 is working fine. Is that correct? And contradicts what your friend previously stated!

 

[sathya]

You still do not understand. I never said I would NOT get OnyX. I have life priorities after being offline for a while.
We seem to be spinning wheels here, so I will leave this for now. I found someone local with whom to work.
Thanks

 

[honestone]

I did not say anything about Onyx in my last post above. Frankly, I don't care whether you get it or not. Same with Carbon Copy Cloner.

But your friend was definitely wrong about Sierra, that's for sure. I guess you have some uninformed friends.

I am done also.