Diagnose A Dead MacBook

[Ormond]

Greeting fellow MacNuts,

Well, got a dead 2009 Macbook on my hands. Perhaps you have advice? Here's the story.

My wife used it last night, no problems. She left it on for me as she always does. When I get to Macbook, notice screen is fixed. Can't move mouse or force quit. Can't do anything.

So I use the power button to reboot. Start up chime happens, Mac tries to reboot, but never gets past white screen.

I power down again. When I try to power up, the Macbook starts beeping at me, and nothing else happens. Black screen. I hit power button again to end the beeping.

Hardware failure? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Cory Cooper]

-This is a white polycarbonate MacBook, correct?
-You mentioned that it was beeping...is it a cycling three beeps? If so, it could be that the RAM sticks have become unseated or have failed.

C

 

[Ormond]

Thanks Cory, your expertise is much appreciated.

Yes, white polycarbonate MacBook. Yes, cycling three beeps. Black screen.

If RAM, that's pretty good news, yes? RAM is relatively cheap, and user installable, right?

How should I further test this theory? Remove RAM and then reinstall it? I can probably do that much.

If that doesn't work, would you advise I shop for RAM? Or are there a number of other possible causes which should be investigated first?

Obviously I know close to nothing about hardware, so any advice welcome.

Thanks!

 

[Cory Cooper]

Three beeps is definitely RAM. Yes, the first thing to do would be to remove and reseat the current RAM. It depends on which exact model is: MacBook: How to remove or install memory. If reseating it doesn't fix things, then you can install only one module at a time to see if only one or both are bad.

If it continually beeps for all scenarios, you could shop for new RAM. It could also be the connector on the logic board, but probably not, as they rarely go bad.

C

 

[Ormond]

Thank you much again, you are a true asset. I will follow your advice and report back.

To celebrate this occasion and your generous nature I will say nothing snarky about anybody, a rare event indeed which I hope will not cause me medical problems.

 

[honestone]

Yahoo! Well done, and yes, let's hope there are no resulting medical issues for you. In fact, it would be good if the opposite happens, and that such behavior becomes the norm! And, it is definitely healthier.

 

[Ormond]

Finally getting to this. Given my recent no so fun history with another vendor, thought I should check in with you guys. I'm reading reviews of this vendor and as usual they are all over the map, some love, some hate etc, the usual drill. Any input here?

Thinking of buying the following:

RAM
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/6400DDR2S4MP/

Toolkit
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/TOOLKITMHD/

I watched their RAM replace video, and have the laptop open. Looks like one of the tiny (tiny!) screws
popped out of it's hole, in the metal strip which conceals the RAM.

See any problems with my order?

Also, I might upgrade the hard drive while I'm doing this. Looking for 500mb+. Know nothing about laptop hard drives, or what is needed for 2009 Macbook. Any advice welcome.

 

[Cory Cooper]

If your MacBook is a Mid 2009, and uses the PC6400 RAM, then that should work fine. You will really only need a penny to unlock the battery, and a small #00 Phillips screwdriver to remove the L-bracket. The Torx T8 driver is helpful for the hard drive "sled" spacer screws.

In regards to the hard drive, I would recommend an SSD over a conventional hard drive. MUCH faster, no noise, better battery life, and more reliability. I personally use Samsung EVO 850/840 SSDs in my Macs, but the OWC SSDs are very nice. I use the HGST Travelstar drives in my mini RAIDs, as they are some of the most reliable conventional hard drives around.

OWC is a very reputable company. I personally have purchased numerous items with them and never had an issue. In fact, I recently upgraded the RAM in an older 2009 iMac with their 4x4 GB kit and it works flawlessly. There will always be good and bad reviews, but I highly recommend them as a company.

Hope that helps,

C

 

[honestone]

As usual, Cory makes valuable suggestions. However, it seems there is something important that needs to be considered.

First, it seems like this is your machine:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...-duo-2.13-white-13-mid-2009-nvidia-specs.html

Assuming it is, notice the line "Storage Dimensions", and specifically the last entry, 3 Gb/s. That figure represents the SATA interface. More modern machines are SATA III 6 Gb/s interface. One can use a SATA III 6 Gb/s SSD inside a machine with a 3 Gb/s interface, but there will be "some" decrease in performance with that scenario. However, unless you are doing something real "intense", it will be barely noticeable. This link contains a discussion about this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-upgrade-sata-3gbps,3469.html

Regarding Samsung SSDs, inside my late 2012 Mac Mini is a Samsung 840 Pro 256 gig SSD that I installed myself. I also have two Samsung 850 Pro 512 gig SSDs inside external enclosures. They are fast, but Samsung 850 Pro SSDs are more expensive than Samsung 850 EVO SSDs, which perform well also.

I don't know about the availability of SATA 3 GB/s SSDs, which could be less expensive that SATA III 6 GB/s SSDs. But, you can't go wrong with a Samsung 850 EVO model.

Finally, there's the consideration of size of the SSD. I would recommend a minimum of 250 gig. A Samsung 850 Pro SSD comes in sizes of 128 Gig, 256 Gig, 512 Gig, and 1 TB. A Samsung 850 EVO SSD comes in sizes of 120 Gig, 250 Gig, 500 Gig, and 1 TB. This link has a review of Samsung 850 EVO SSDs:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850-evo-review

 

[Ormond]

Ok, got the new RAM. The Macbook originally had 2GB RAM (1+1) and the new RAM is 4GB (2X2).

I installed the new RAM. The Macbook is working again. Yea!

However, the "About this Mac" dialog shows only 2GB RAM installed.

The package from OWC clearly says 4GB, so I think they sent the right thing.

Before I take the Macbook apart again and start fiddling around I thought it might be wise to first hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

 

[honestone]

Again, doubt you'll thank me for this. But that anomaly exists for various Mac models. This link shows the different kinds of 2009 white polycarbonate MacBooks:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...body-late-2009-mid-2009-white-core-2-duo.html

Still not sure which one you have, but notice the lines about the RAM:

"Standard RAM: 2 GB 2 GB
Maximum RAM: 6 GB* 8 GB* "

Still Note the asterisk next to each Maximum RAM figure, and below on that link, that asterisk is explained:

* Officially, Apple supports a maximum of 4 GB of RAM in both models, but the actual capacities are 6 GB and 8 GB, respectively."

The dialogue you are seeing, though, shows only 2 Gig installed. Maybe you have a different model, and thus for your model, that asterisk sentence would read:

"* Officially, Apple supports a maximum of 2 GB of RAM in both models, but the actual capacity is 4 GB."

 

[Cory Cooper]

Again, doubt you'll thank me for this.

OK...again I have to step in, before this even begins to escalate. This is the second time today you have started a reply to Ormond with a similar negative prod. Taking history into consideration, I will not ask you again to refrain from this.

Ormond - With regards to the RAM issue, the MacBook (13-inch, Mid 2009) has two slots and officially supports 4 GB, and unofficially 6 GB. If you are only seeing 2 GB, then one of the RAM slots may be bad. If About This Mac > Memory is showing two 2 GB sticks, but only a total of 2 GB, then there is something amiss. You could try swapping the two sticks in the slots and see if that clears it up.

C

 

[Ormond]

Ormond - With regards to the RAM issue, the MacBook (13-inch, Mid 2009) has two slots and officially supports 4 GB, and unofficially 6 GB.

Yes, that's what my research found as well. I decided to pass on the 6GB.

If About This Mac > Memory is showing two 2 GB sticks, but only a total of 2 GB, then there is something amiss.

I don't see anything about number of sticks. The About Mac dialog says...

2GB 800 Mhz DDR2 SDRAM

System Profiler > RAM just says 2 GB

You could try swapping the two sticks in the slots and see if that clears it up.

Ok, will do. Maybe I don't have one of the sticks fully seated.

Would the machine run with just one stick, assuming stick and slot are good? If yes, that would help me figure out which stick or slot is the issue.

Thanks as always Cory.

 

[Cory Cooper]

-Which version of OS X?
-Correct...one of the sticks may not be seated fully. Normally, that would trigger the three beeps, but not always.
-Yes, it will run with only one, but you get a slight performance boost with two, as it interleaves them.

C

 

[Ormond]

Snow Leopard.

I'm curious. Why did the machine go down in the first place?

Let's say one of the slots is bad. If that's the case, the slot is presumably still bad. So why did the machine die before, but now it runs?

One of the old RAM sticks might have died, but it seems unlikely both of them died at the exact same time, right? In this case, shouldn't the machine have booted on the RAM stick that hadn't died?

The machine is now working with same amount of RAM it had before, so this isn't a crisis I need to solve. But my nerd brain is trying to learn something about RAM while I'm at this.

 

[Cory Cooper]

OK...in Snow Leopard:

About This Mac > More Info... > Hardware > Memory

It should show two banks - BANK 0/DIMM 0 and BANK 1/DIMM 1 along with the size of each. Since you purchased a 4 GB kit - 2x2 GB, it should show both slots occupied with 2 GB DIMMs. If you see both slots occupied with 1 GB sticks, then the kit may have had the wrong DIMMs in it.

Here is what one of my Mac minis running Snow Leopard shows:

If you don't see that, and have tried switching the sticks and it shows the same, then one of the slots is bad. Both sticks could have failed at the same time, but not normally. I have seen slots fail, but normally due to some form of liquid/physical or static damage. In a few rare cases, the logic board/RAM slot failed, but only once or twice that I have seen.

Hope that helps,

C

 

[Ormond]

Wow, you sure are helpful Cory. Let me ask you this. Do you sell any product or service? If yes, please let us know what, just in case we need it some day. Or, feel free to suggest other ways I might return this favor.

So I checked, and it shows 2GB in Bank 1, and Bank 0 is empty.

So "empty" could mean:

1) dead RAM slot,
2) dead RAM stick, or
3) poorly seated RAM stick?

Off the top of your head do you happen to know which slot Bank 0 is? Here's an approx photo for reference. As seen from the perspective of the person taking the photo, would Bank 0 be on the right or left? If you know. I'm asking because, given this is my first time, ideally I won't mess with whatever is already working.

Thanks again!

 

[Cory Cooper]

No, I don't sell any products or services. I have been doing Mac support for over 25 years. No need to return the favor...I do this because I love it.

In this case, it is probably 1) dead RAM slot.

I believe BANK 1 is on the left and BANK 0 is on the right in your photo.

You could still try swapping the RAM sticks, but I understand if you are reluctant, since it is working now.

C