MacBook Air won't turn back on after shut down

[jools]

I have a Mid 2013 MBA that has recently started giving me some issues. Under normal use, it does not respond at all to the power button. The only way I can get it to start, is by opening the back and disconnecting the battery, then pressing power. It will then start, but the fan runs at full speed the whole time, and if I press the power button while it's running, it turns off (dead) instantly. If I do a software reset, it'll restart, if I do a software shut down, I have to do the battery pull to start it again. If I run it without the battery connected, it'll do the same thing, except I have to remove and replace the MagSafe connector in order to restart. I've tried multiple SMC resets, as well as NVRAM/PRAM resets. No change. I've also completely wiped the SSD and did an internet OS reinstall. It exhibits the same behavior with the WiFi and SSD disconnected. I ran diagnostics (D at startup), and got the following errors:

There may be an issue with the System Management Controller (SMC) PFM006

and

There may be an issue with the power management system PPN001

So based on the symptoms, paired with the diagnostic codes, it sounds for sure like an SMC issue, hence, a MLB issue. I couldn't figure it out, and didn't want to just blow $600+ on a MLB without knowing for sure, so I went to the Apple Store, who didn't impress me too much. They told me it could be the battery, the MLB, of the IO board (USB/Audo/MagSafe). But he kept calling the IO board the SMC board, which doesn't make sense to me as I was certain the SMC was on the MLB. So they just want to shotgun parts at it, which I'm trying to avoid. Can anybody give me some insight on this, I've done everything I can think of. I'm prepared to spend the money to fix it, but I want to be sure before I start randomly replacing parts.

 

[Cory Cooper]

Hello and welcome.

It could be any of the items the Apple Store mentioned, but it does sound more like a logic board issue to me as well. It actually could be the battery though - what does System Information > Power say about it? It could also be the result of unknown liquid damage, as the power button not working, the error codes, and the fans running could all be caused by that simultaneously.

-When you disconnect the battery, it starts with the power button and MagSafe attached, correct?
-Did they perform their own AST diagnostics? The Genius Bar sure isn't what it used to be.

C

 

[jools]

Not sure what they did, as he took it in the back, but he didn't really seem to be very knowledgeable (in my opinion anyway). If I disconnect the battery It will start, and exhibit the same behaviors. If I reset, it will restart, but if I shut down, I have to pull the MagSafe and reconnect to get it to turn on again. For this reason, I had ruled out the battery... I also read something online about a faulty temperature sensor causing similar symptoms.

 

[Ormond]

Assuming you bought the machine new from Apple, I'd ask for a replacement. Shouldn't a $1000+ device last longer than 4 years?? Ok, so this is unlikely to work, but shouldn't somebody be questioning whether this is really YOUR problem to solve?

 

[jools]

It's way out of Warranty. They aren't going to replace it.

 

[Ormond]

It's way out of Warranty. They aren't going to replace it.

You're probably right. But you can still make a contribution to the Mac community by demanding that they do. Apple is the richest company on Earth. They make BILLIONS of dollars in profit every month. There's no good reason why they can't improve the reliability of their products. And if they did that, everyone would benefit, including Apple stockholders.

So that's the deal Jools, I'm placing responsibility for the future of Apple upon your shoulders. Don't let us down dude!

 

[honestone]

Like automobiles, Macs go bad eventually (especially if one does not take care of them). For the battery, there is no reason why Apple should replace it at this point in time. I also have a mid 2013 13" MacBook Air that I purchased in October 2013, and it still works fine. Plus, there is still plenty of life left in the battery (according to TechTool Pro).

 

[jools]

Agreed. I don't expect Apple to do anything for me at this point. I want to determine the cause of the problem and make the repairs so that I can get it going again.

 

[Ormond]

I don't expect Apple to do anything for me at this point.

Do you mean that in the legal sense, or the moral sense?

Legally the issue would seem to be settled, but sometimes Apple does go above and beyond the legal requirement. If your issue has appeared in enough other machines, Apple will sometimes recognize that it's not just your machine that failed but a larger problem for which they are willing to take responsibility, even beyond the warranty. I of course have no idea if that's the case here. Cory might know a way to look that up.

I realize this won't help you, but the question still seems worth asking. Do you feel Apple owes it to you to fix this machine at their expense, or meet you in the middle somewhere? Not legally, morally. Whatever you paid for the machine, how long do you feel such a machine should reasonably last? I'm not going to argue with whatever you say, I'm just curious, if you care to share.

I want to determine the cause of the problem and make the repairs so that I can get it going again.

Yes, I understand, that's of course completely reasonable. I surely wish you luck with that and hope the repair is as modest as possible.

But while we're discussing this, we might observe that this is how big corporations dominate us. They leverage our own self centered focus. Each of us is focused primarily on our own situation, and by doing so we make the equation "me vs. the huge corporation". And that's a contest we will almost always lose.

I don't mean Apple is evil. I just mean Apple is a huge corporation, and the purpose of corporations is to suck money out of the middle and lower classes and funnel it to the upper classes. Big corporations will, by design, suck as much money out of us that we will allow them to take. It's legal, and it's just business. But when we accept the formula "me vs. the big corporation" we aren't doing very good business. Which is why we typically lose the negotiation.

Every Mac forum I've ever visited buys in to this defeatist mindset. The group consensus always is, stop blowharding Ormond, and let's focus on a technical fix for this particular issue. And because we think this way, the same issues have to be fixed one by one by one by one a million times. The technical fix approach can be very smart on the surface, but when seen from the larger view it's irrational. What's rational would be to solve these problems at their source.

Want more reliable products from Apple? We can have that. But only if we think and act like a group. If each of us stopped buying Apple products for one year, and told Apple we would return when their devices were 25% more reliable, at the same price, that's what we'd get. Apple stockholders would win here too, if it could be proven that Apple products really are more reliable than all other computers.

But as long as we keep rationalizing the status quo, we'll get what we deserve, more of the same old same old. I haven't bought a new Mac from Apple in 17 years, even though I could afford to buy a new one every year. That's where we're headed.

 

[honestone]

Every company is not perfect, nor will there ever be one. But when dealing with mechanical devices, it is certainly unreasonable to expect them to last forever. Yes, there are lemons produced no matter which product line one deals with, and for those, the company should own up to such mistakes. But (I suspect) the number of lemon MacBook Air machines produced are very, very few.

I always provide Toyota as a company like Apple. Both produce reliable machines that can be trouble free, and last a long time. But, one must make the effort to properly take care of such products. For Toyotas, it's doing some simple self maintenance, along with bringing their cars in for scheduled maintenance. For Macs, it's doing disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs, and backups, on a frequent basis. Of course one stark difference between Apple and Toyota is that Apple charges "Cadillac like" prices, whereas Toyota (not including their Lexus division. In some respects, that division could be characterized as "The Apple" of Toyota, as Lexus vehicles are more expensive than comparable Toyota models) charges competitive pricing. But, both companies do produce products that last a long time.

Starting with the Apple IIE, then the Apple IIGS, and then a number of Macs, those machines I own have lasted me a long, long time. My current Mac Mini is almost 4 years old, as is my MacBook Air, and they are still going strong. I previously owned a 1996 Toyota Camry (purchased brand new) that we had for 8 years. When we traded it in, it was still running like a champ! There are, of course, the typical things that need to be changed on cars: tires, brakes, and batteries. But that's expected. But that car was (until "possibly" recently) by far the best car we have ever owned. Four years ago, we purchased a 2013 Toyota Camry, and as expected, it is running flawlessly. So far, the car is running fine. I expect to get a number of good to excellent years out of it, just like my Macs. Again, though, I make a concerted effort to take care of our cars and my Macs.

In summary, it is dream world "mentality" to think that Apple needs to provide a new battery (unless it can CLEARLY be proven to be defective). That would be like expecting automobile companies to provide free replacement batteries, brakes, and tires when such "pieces" have not been defective, and have lasted their normal life span. Of course, how soon such stuff needs to be replaced depends on one's driving habits (and that assumes one is taking care of their vehicles). It's certainly similar with Macs. I have been on a number of Mac forums, and I have not seen anything about battery issues with the mid 2013 MacBook Air (nor any other "serious" issues). All I know is that my machines continue to function flawlessly, just like our cars do.

 

[nexeon9]

Hi, I have exactly same problem with a friends Macbook air. I think it is 2015 model(A1466). The only difference is that with diagnostics it comes up with a battery fault, however the battery is fine and holds charge. You can only switch it on once the battery and power adapter have been off and is fine until you do a "shutdown".

Can you please let me know how and if you managed to get it repaired?

 

[electric wheels]

This is a long shot, but what the heck...
Apple had a problem with defective batteries in MacBooks around 2009 or so, and they were replacing them at no charge. I can't remember the details now, but when my battery died abruptly, I looked into the replacement. Although my machine was not on the list for having shipped with the defective batteries, the behavior I explained (forgotten by now) was enough to get a free replacement.

As others have written here, it's unreasonable to expect batteries to last forever, and it is reasonable for a battery to simply wear out and no longer hold a charge. But my non-expert opinion is that the behavior you describe may be a defect, as distinguished from the battery having been used up.

So I'd at least probe around with the official Mac support system and see what you can learn from the manufacturer.

FWIW, the new battery is performing perfectly well now after 4 years, which is longer than the first battery survived.

Good luck!

 

[ktelectronics]

If you're problem is SMC related or something similiar, you can get components like the replaced from good repair shops that perform component level board repairs such as micro-soldering

 

[jools]

Sorry I should have posted this earlier. Just for anybody who may be experiencing the same issue, I got it resolved. I bit the bullet and bought a new MLB, and $450 later, nothing resolved. At this point I had basically given up. The Apple store IMHO didn'thave a clue, and every forum I posted to just kept telling me to go to the apple store. However, as luck would have it, I had a buddy who's MBA was having keyboard/trackpad issues, and seeing as mine was already partially apart, I took the trackpad out of mine and installed it in his to determine if it was the keyboard or trackpad (it was the trackpad). I reinstalled my trackpad back into my own laptop, and wouldn't you know it, everything back to normal. I have no explanation as to why this would affect it, and whenever I try and ask others for their opinion I just get referred to the Apple store. I think it points back to my original thought, that there was a temperature sensor issue. Not sure. But anyway, if anybody out there is having the same problem, it's worth a try. Thanks.

 

[honestone]

Congratulations! Glad you got it resolved, but yeah, it sure seems strange the solution you "found". Hopefully, the machine will give you a number of years of productive use, just like my mid 2013 13" MBA is doing.