Has Catalina ruined my late-2013 iMac?

[Nesta Hall]

Good morning. First post. Just upgraded to Catalina y'day and its been a disaster. Brief history: a week ago i received a pdf that would not open. said it was encrypted. had never seen that. assumed the file was the problem - had been protected or similar. But the guy said he'd only protected against edits. So ...??? A week later i receive another pdf from a different source, and same error message. So, now the problem looks like on my end. I suspect that my old Acrobat Pro (2008) was simply too old to open this file by a newer Acrobat. Tried to upgrade Acrobat, but turns out my O/S is too old for Acrobat 2020. So i try to upgrade the O/S and Apple steers me straight to Catalina. OK, Fine. So i do that yesterday, but it starts taking forever. I mean hours. And when it was finally complete, so many things seemed screwed up. My Mail app said something like it had been wrecked and i had to re-install it or something(?), and so then it set about downloading 78000 emails.... for several more hours. In addition, none of my old apps work with the new O/S so I lost all my Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, and others. But basically, the computer is running like its in quicksand - essentially unusable. One cant sit waiting 23 seconds to switch between tabs on Chrome, or 17 seconds for an email to open. What could be wrong? Wondered about the memory, the harddrive has about 500GB of space, and the iMac has two 4-GB RAM chips (?)... Any ideas?

 

[Cory Cooper]

Hello and welcome.

The Late 2013 iMacs are definitely compatible with Catalina, albeit at the slower end of the supported hardware models.

-Do you have a Time Machine or other backup of your data?
-Have you tried opening the PDFs with the Preview application instead of Acrobat?
-Sometimes macOS will run slowly after an upgrade, since Spotlight is indexing the drive in the background. Has it gotten any better?
-What Login Items are loading at startup?
-Do you have any third-party utilities like MacKeeper or antivirus installed and running?

C

 

[Nesta Hall]

Appreciate all those points, Cory. I had always ignored TimeMachine, so no backups. After 24-36 hours, it was still running in quicksand - sometimes felt like was getting better, but might have been wishful thinking - so I took it to a computer tech shop in my area. Says he planned to “mirror the computer over to a ... solid state hard drive (?) and stick that inside the machine, plus upgrade the RAM.” Said it should be faster than lightening. Of course, now he’s awol and I’ve had no updates from him since Thursday midday when I dropped it off! Sigh... I’ll keep u posted.

 

[Cory Cooper]

OK, thanks.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

C

 

[neilrpasc]

I gather 32 bit apps will not run on Catalina. I have several, so will not be upgrading for the time being. If you're having probs with older apps, this may explain it.

 

[Harry Trent]

Yes, some of your described problems have to do with 32-bit apps no longer being supported. The slowness is likely due to lack of RAM. I have a Mac Mini late 2012 that I updated to Catalina from Mojave just the other day. I have 16gb of RAM installed and an SSD. I noticed it runs a little slower with Catalina but still acceptable.

May I ask, which Mac OS did you upgrade to Mojave from?

Every year before the new MAC OS comes out, I download the current OS and create an installer on a thumb drive so that if the update to the new OS doesn't pan out I can turn the machine back to the previous one.

 

[Allen Davis]

...So i try to upgrade the O/S and Apple steers me straight to Catalina. OK, Fine. So i do that yesterday, but it starts taking forever. I mean hours. And when it was finally complete, so many things seemed screwed up. My Mail app said something like it had been wrecked and i had to re-install it or something(?), and so then it set about downloading 78000 emails.... for several more hours. In addition, none of my old apps work with the new O/S so I lost all my Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, and others. But basically, the computer is running like its in quicksand - essentially unusable. One cant sit waiting 23 seconds to switch between tabs on Chrome, or 17 seconds for an email to open. What could be wrong? Wondered about the memory, the harddrive has about 500GB of space, and the iMac has two 4-GB RAM chips (?)... Any ideas?

I have to assume since Apple "steered" you straight to Catalina, your previous OS was High Sierra or earlier, having skipped Mojave.

When I installed Mojave on both my iMac and 2012 i7 MBP, Creative Suite wouldn't work any longer due to 32-bit issues. I think I was still able to use Acrobat for some reason, but my memory could be faulty on that. And Catalina is totally 64-bit only, so either start coughing up monthly rent to Adobe, which I'll do when hell freezes over, or do what I've done: find open source alternatives. They aren't that bad once you get past the learning curve and get over losing the Adobe interface.

I have the 2.9GHz i7 version of the 2012 MacBook Pro. Lucky, lucky me! With the 6G 500GB SSD installed, it boots in less than 30 seconds. I can't imagine a 2013 Mac being all that slow. I even have Catalina installed on my unsupported 2010 iMac, and it boots pretty fast. Everything works well except Photos, when it will produce a color explosion when you double-click a thumbnail to view a picture at full size. Other than that, it works great.

I second Cory's opinion that Preview would've worked with your PDF just fine, but it sounds like someone password protected your PDF files, thinking that would "protect" them from editing.

 

[Nesta Hall]

I gather 32 bit apps will not run on Catalina. I have several, so will not be upgrading for the time being. If you're having probs with older apps, this may explain it.

Thanks for that. I did lose all my old Adobe Creative Suite apps, and MS Office. Didnt care about any other apps or applets.... I have gotten the latest Adobe Creative on this iMac, now, and am about to get Office back. I looked at Pages and Numbers, but, as an old dog, dont like new things, so id like to have good old Word and Excel back, thank you very much.

Anyway, i always figured the software issue is easy - just was out of date. But the OS thing is a different question, right? That's at the heart of the machine. I have it back from the shop and its better, but i dont think the guy really did anything.

 

[Nesta Hall]

re Harry Trent and Allen Davis: thanks for your comments.
Just to update the story, and this one individual's experience: i got my iMac back from the local tech shop yesterday evening, but i dont think i got much fixed. Apparently these iMacs are not meant to be opened up to upgrade the RAM, or work on the harddrive. I saw that on another of your forum threads last week, too: you've got to rip the glass face off the body, using "a heat gun and guitar picks as wedges" (!!), apparently. My techie says thats all about Apple wanting to make it very difficult for non-Genius bar shops to want to work on these machines - liability and warranty issues, etc etc. But i dont know anything about all that... So all that good idea about installing a solid state hard drive and more RAM, and mirroring my machine over to the new harddrive did not happen. He says he took off a pile of spyware, but said that, these days, every computer is full of spyware (maybe not for you tech-savvy guys on here?!). He also said i have multiple duplicate "users" on the machine, including potentially one that dates back to the graphics designer i employed when i owned a small design biz 11 years ago. I guess that means that this iMac is 'populated' from a design department computer that i originally retained after the biz was liquidated in 2009, and took home as a home computer??? And when that one died, i migrated it to an iMac that died in 2013, and that was transferred to THIS current machine. Thats a weird idea that the machine dies but we migrate our 'digital existance; from machine to machine... I guess things can get duplicated and redundant and messy, doing that??? Anyway, I have yet to double check that those 'user' folders are truly redundant and delete them, but he says that clearing the hard drive as much as possible is never a bad idea. So, in the end, he figured all along that the hard drive is probably starting to go bad (again, its a late 2013 iMac), and maybe Catalina, being so large, started to write to part of the hard drive that was going bad.... I have 8Gb RAM and 1 TB of storage, just fwiw. Well, thats the latest. Im back up and running, today, but its definitely not the same. Certainly ok for now, but probably will be buying a new MacBook soon enough, huh?

 

[brianwmay]

Stuck with Mojave on my 2015 MacBook Pro 15" Retina as I lost too much with Catalina.

As for stopping you upgrading, or servicing, correct. I have just replaced the (glued in) battery on my MBP as the battery was 'climbing out' and distorting the case.

WHY Apple are so precious about their products I just don't know . . . the cynical part of me is adamant it's just to force you to buy again.

This machine boots from scratch in just under 30 seconds.

 

[Nesta Hall]

Agreed. My tech shop guy seems damn sharp, and i think once i clean up my hard drive as he said, i'll be in decent shape, but he no longer works on iphone, or a lot of Mac stuff, unless asked, because they've made it so difficult.

 

[Mimi]

Yes, some of your described problems have to do with 32-bit apps no longer being supported. The slowness is likely due to lack of RAM. I have a Mac Mini late 2012 that I updated to Catalina from Mojave just the other day. I have 16gb of RAM installed and an SSD. I noticed it runs a little slower with Catalina but still acceptable.

May I ask, which Mac OS did you upgrade to Mojave from?

Every year before the new MAC OS comes out, I download the current OS and create an installer on a thumb drive so that if the update to the new OS doesn't pan out I can turn the machine back to the previous one.

What a great idea. Wish I'd know that before the Catalina install. I wanna go back

 

[MartyByrde]

Yes, some of your described problems have to do with 32-bit apps no longer being supported. The slowness is likely due to lack of RAM. I have a Mac Mini late 2012 that I updated to Catalina from Mojave just the other day. I have 16gb of RAM installed and an SSD. I noticed it runs a little slower with Catalina but still acceptable.

May I ask, which Mac OS did you upgrade to Mojave from?

Every year before the new MAC OS comes out, I download the current OS and create an installer on a thumb drive so that if the update to the new OS doesn't pan out I can turn the machine back to the previous one.

I had a late 2012 Mac Mini until February, with 8 gig of Ram and a 256 gig SSD (installed the SSD myself). It had Catalina on it, and it ran very well. Speed was not an issue, as it was the model that was a Core i7. But even my late 2018 model, with similar specs (but is a Core i5 model) is fast enough.

But two things folks forget about improving the performance of a machine are 1) performing disk cleanup, maintenance, and repairs, and 2) the amount of free space one has. For #1, besides one's own efforts for disk cleanup, there are some excellent programs (both free and commercial) that can help with such tasks. Also, it has been proven time and time again that the more free space one has on their internal device, the better the machine runs. I am a "nut" for keeping both of my Macs "lean, mean, and clean", and those efforts lead to hardly any issues regarding performance, and having no issues at all.

 

[Mimi]

I am just being nosy on this thread, but what are some free or demo disk cleaners. I had cocktail be for installing Catalina and now they say it my version cannot be updated. Grrrr

 

[MartyByrde]

I am just being nosy on this thread, but what are some free or demo disk cleaners. I had cocktail be for installing Catalina and now they say it my version cannot be updated. Grrrr

First of all, Cocktail (or similar programs (I'll name one below)) has nothing to do with installing a Mac OS.

Secondly, I have been using Onyx for a number of years. It is free, is rock solid, works very well, and I would not be without it:

Titanium Software | Operating System Utilities for Mac - OnyX

OnyX is a multifunction utility that you can use to verify the startup disk and the structure of its system files; run tasks of cleaning and computer maintenance; configure some hidden parameters of many Apple applications; and more.

www.titanium-software.fr

It is one of my 6 critical applications that need to be compatible with a new Mac OS before I move to that new OS. Onyx is not there yet, but Big Sur just came out, and it still has some issues.

Secondly, I also use a commercial program, Tech Tool Pro, for further disk cleanup, maintenance, and (rarely ever happens) repairs. Again, it is rock solid, been using it for along time, and would not be without. But like Onyx, not yet compatible with Big Sur.

By the way, V13.2,5 of Cocktail is compatible with Catalina:

Cocktail

Download the latest version of Cocktail for Mac for free. Read 536 user reviews and compare with similar apps on MacUpdate.

www.macupdate.com

That's another thing one must do: keep all their software (and especially third party products) up to date.

 

[Allen Davis]

First of all, Cocktail (or similar programs (I'll name one below)) has nothing to do with installing a Mac OS.

Secondly, I have been using Onyx for a number of years. It is free, is rock solid, works very well, and I would not be without it:

Titanium Software | Operating System Utilities for Mac - OnyX

OnyX is a multifunction utility that you can use to verify the startup disk and the structure of its system files; run tasks of cleaning and computer maintenance; configure some hidden parameters of many Apple applications; and more.

www.titanium-software.fr

It is one of my 6 critical applications that need to be compatible with a new Mac OS before I move to that new OS. Onyx is not there yet, but Big Sur just came out, and it still has some issues.

Secondly, I also use a commercial program, Tech Tool Pro, for further disk cleanup, maintenance, and (rarely ever happens) repairs. Again, it is rock solid, been using it for along time, and would not be without. But like Onyx, not yet compatible with Big Sur.

By the way, V13.2,5 of Cocktail is compatible with Catalina:

Cocktail

Download the latest version of Cocktail for Mac for free. Read 536 user reviews and compare with similar apps on MacUpdate.

www.macupdate.com

That's another thing one must do: keep all their software (and especially third party products) up to date.

Maybe it's just me, but I've come to view Techtool Pro with a jaundiced eye. They still include, and often encourage users to "defragment" their drives. Uhhh... I have a bunch of Mercury SSDs, and from what I've been told, "defragging" a SSD is a big no-no. Personally, after paying for upgrades to TTP for several years, I don't see what it's actually useful for. Perhaps you can edify me. I do care about my Macs and want nothing bad to befall them.

Like you, I keep the OS-appropriate version of Onyx around, but I don't use it all that often. First, I'm not quite sure how to use it, or what specific tasks/functions to run. Again, I hope you can enlighten me. I don't think Onyx is very intuitive, but I know it receives a great deal of respect from you and others.

I use the AppCleaner app that comes with the paper bag looking icon. It seems to work well since it appears to gather up all the related files and things from the Library folders and dumps them all. I've been warned to stay away from a number of other app cleaning apps.

I also try to keep at least 25-30% of my drives clear and empty, and that's always seemed to keep performance up-to-snuff.

It took moving heaven and earth for me to get my unsupported 2010 iMac off of Catalina and back to Mojave, which is also unsupported, but it works great for me. I can use all of Photo's features on this machine again, which was the biggest problem I had with Catalina.

 

[MartyByrde]

Hi Allen,

OK, will try and answer as many questions that you have, along with some comments.

First off, Tech Tool Pro has never bugged me about defragging. And yes, it is a no-no for SSDs. I am in an all SSD world, as each of my internal devices are SSDs, and so are my 3 external devices. Not sure what you mean by "bugged", and why it happens.

When I run Tech Tool Pro, I do it after running Onyx as part of my once a week (on Saturdays) processes for disk cleanup, maintenance, and (rarely ever needed) repairs, and backups with SuperDuper!. In actuality, after launching Tech Tool Pro, I then choose to restart my Mac from its eDrive. There are some processes I run that require them to be done via the eDrive. After that, here are are tasks I run:

Memory Test
SMART Check
Partition Map
Volume Structures (used to check the structure of the two volumes on my internal SSD)
Video Memory
Sensors Test
File Strucures
Fans Test
(For my MacBook Air only) Battery Check
Volume Rebuild

(Have not run Surface Scan in a while, but would need to launch TechTool Pro from within my SuperDuper! backup (after restarting my Mac from it) to run that).

While I rarely ever see any issues arising out of running all that, it's just comporting to know all is well.

Secondly, for the Mojave version of Onyx, just click on the Maintenance tab in the upper left of the horizontal choices. That will run a series of Cache cleaning tasks, along with some other functions.

Third, yes, AppCleaner is excellent. However, I always find that it does not quite catch every file/folder associated with the application being removed. So, I then launch the excellent freeware program EasyFind (prefer it much more than Spotlight), and then in the Search bar, put in a partial name of the app. Given that the results are sorted in date/time order, I can easily see if I need to get rid of some more.

Wonderful that you are keeping that much free space. I myself keep even more. In fact, on my late 2018 Mac Mini running the latest version of Catalina, I have about 70% of free space! And in my early 2017 Mac Book Air (again running Catalina), it is close to 80%. I just don't se the need to store that many files on my internal SSDs.

 

[Nesta Hall]

Hello.... been meaning to get back to this matter, and im glad i did; what a lot of great info about keeping a Mac running smoothly. I'm going to get into Onyx, TechToolPro, Cocktail, etc etc, right away. Maybe that will in fact preclude my (other) next step, which is what i wanted to post about today:

Can i buy a new Mac Mini, and use this old late-2013 iMac JUST as a monitor???

 

[Nesta Hall]

Maybe a follow up question about Memory (is it still called RAM?)... I see the Mac Mini only has 8GB "unified memory". Thats what this late-2013 iMac has (two 4-GB 1600 MHz DDR3 memory modules), so is there any point in me buying a new Mac Mini and migrating my computer over to that? Or is it the case that the new Mac Mini will be so current iin terms of support for the latest OS, and software, etc etc, that it makes A LOT of sense to buy one and try to use my old late-2013 iMac as just the monitor? Thanks in advance!