Backing up from Monterrey12.0.1

[Reedand]

I just upgraded to Monterrey on my new MacBookPro. I want to perform the first backup since starting to use this new laptop. As usual, I use My Passport for Mac, and Super Duper 3.5. As usual, I started Smart Update, but then, for the first time ever, I got a message that Mac OS 12.0.1 requires APFS formatting for MyPassport for Mac. It indicates that Super Duper can TRY TO convert HFS+ files to APFS but may fail and the process cannot be reversed. I do not understand anything about this formatting problen, have never seen it before, and don't dare continue without knowing what's going on. What should I do? It was so simple before! Why not now!? See attached screen shot of error message. Thanks for any help! (I should note that the screenshot is from an earlier attempt to backup from prior OS version, but the message is identical to the one I've just gotten using OS12.0.1)

 

[DanL]

You'd be smart to ask Dave Nanian at the SuperDuper discussion forum.

 

[maw_walker]

I am asking this out of curiosity: why SuperDuper? I have never backed up operating systems (Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS) because the installs are easy. I only back up my data so Time Machine has worked perfectly for me. On Linux and FreeBSD, rsync has worked perfectly and its essentially what Time Machine is doing.

What is the purpose of backing up an operating system image for a desktop?

 

[Lufbrarunner]

.....

What is the purpose of backing up an operating system image for a desktop?

I have a SuperDuper clone of each of my macs. Should anything happen to the drives I can boot from a clone and reclone the drive on the machine from the backup.
I also clone the drives before doing any hardware upgrades, just in case.
I have Time machine backups of each machine too, it's a bit belt and braces but it gives me options in case of a failure.

 

[maw_walker]

Ah ok. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[TonyAguila]

I have a SuperDuper clone of each of my macs. Should anything happen to the drives I can boot from a clone and reclone the drive on the machine from the backup.
I also clone the drives before doing any hardware upgrades, just in case.
I have Time machine backups of each machine too, it's a bit belt and braces but it gives me options in case of a failure.

Really? As far as I know, since the introduction of the dual volume (system and data) setup in macOS Catalina, clones from SuperDuper and Carbon Copy Cloner are no longer bootable. The quickest way to test them is through System Preferences -> Startup Disk. The cloned drives do not show up in the selection, nor can you see them from the selection with an Option keypress on startup.

For that matter, Time Machine drives are no longer on the list of boot drives either. My solutions for doing a full restore is by reinstalling macOS from Recovery and migrating data from Time Machine or from SuperDuper/Carbon Copy Cloner clones; or you can install macOS from an external installer disk or memory stick.

 

[maw_walker]

I need to test this with Monterey. I have been using Time Machine with success to restore a complete system since 2009 or so. Haven’t had to do that in a long time but a test can’t hurt.

 

[TonyAguila]

I need to test this with Monterey. I have been using Time Machine with success to restore a complete system since 2009 or so. Haven’t had to do that in a long time but a test can’t hurt.

Ditto. Even though I didn’t rely on booting from a Time Machine drive for recovery, it was an option for a long time. But lately, no. Just a quick check with Startup Disk will show you.

With macOS becoming more feature-filled, it has also become very touchy. I recommend creating a bootable external drive or stick. For Monterey, I recommend 32 GB, at least. You can now download the Monterey installer file from the App Store. And macOS 12.1 will be released in the near future, if you can afford to wait.

Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support

You can use a USB flash drive or other secondary volume as a startup disk from which to install the Mac operating system. These steps are primarily for system administrators and other experienced users who are familiar with entering commands in Terminal.

support.apple.com

For El Capitan and later.

 

[Lufbrarunner]

Shirt-pocket blog

 

[TonyAguila]

Shirt-pocket blog

I read about SuperDuper playing catch-up with the newer macOSes, along with trouble with File Vault. I keep my SuperDuper and CCC licenses current for reliable clones, but not with system volumes.

Michael Tsai - Blog - SuperDuper 3.5 Beta 4 for Monterey and Apple Silicon

mjtsai.com

 

[maw_walker]

So I just did a boot to recovery mode (option+command+r) on my 2019 MacBook Pro 13" and after joining the network and picking my admin user, I was presented with several recovery options, one of which was to restore from TimeMachine, which in my case is on my NAS. I am running the latest version of Monterey.

Did I misunderstand something? What is the goal here: to boot off other media and access the existing OS volume to grab data or something?

 

[TonyAguila]

So I just did a boot to recovery mode (option+command+r) on my 2019 MacBook Pro 13" and after joining the network and picking my admin user, I was presented with several recovery options, one of which was to restore from TimeMachine, which in my case is on my NAS. I am running the latest version of Monterey.

Did I misunderstand something? What is the goal here: to boot off other media and access the existing OS volume to grab data or something?

Recovery from Time Machine is not an issue. If you misunderstood my previous statement regarding Time Machine, it was about previously being able to boot up from the Time Machine drive itself, which made it convenient to start up from an external drive if Time Machine is all you had.

BTW, have you tried a full restore from Time Machine from a NAS server? Over Wi-Fi? I only use mine to stream video to my smart TV but I don’t think I have the patience to do a full system restore over Wi-Fi, or over ethernet either.

 

[maw_walker]

Ah ok, I see. I misunderstood that part, my apologies.

I have not yet but I am running WiFi6 and nothing is slow. I get the same speed from my ISP wired or wireless. I'll have to try though, just to see how long it takes. I am currently running a back up so I have a fresh TimeMachine snapshot to work from. I'll run a recovery and see how long it takes this weekend and post back.

 

[TonyAguila]

Ah ok, I see. I misunderstood that part, my apologies.

I have not yet but I am running WiFi6 and nothing is slow. I get the same speed from my ISP wired or wireless. I'll have to try though, just to see how long it takes. I am currently running a back up so I have a fresh TimeMachine snapshot to work from. I'll run a recovery and see how long it takes this weekend and post back.

Good plan! I wold be greatly interested. Do you have File Vault turned on, and Time Machine encrypted?

It’s good to know what to expect ahead of time, so you know what to expect when you really need it.

And 12.1 (21C5021h) seems to have fixed a number of issues with 12.0.1, although my problems with iCloud sync persist.

 

[maw_walker]

OK, so I couldn't resist and did this anyway...this is off topic but I hope OK - I did a recovery boot, picked TimeMachine and the backup I wanted to restore and interestingly enough, I could only do a fresh install of Monterey and use migration assistant to restore data and apps. At least that is what the dialog said when I picked a recent Monterey backup. So, I thought what the heck, a fresh install wouldn't hurt.

It took about 50 minutes total and interestingly enough it did a TimeMachine restore and not a fresh install. Well, I think anyway since my machine is in exactly the same state it was when I did the backup about an hour ago. I expected a brand new install where I had to walk through the "new user" wizard process. I wasn't expecting to be back where I was but this is OK I guess. Was kind of hoping for a fresh install since I have removed some software and wanted to start fresh. Probably fine because everything is working perfectly.

FileVault is on but TimeMachine backups are not encrypted. I should probably encrypt them as well.

 

[maw_walker]

OK, I see - the "fresh install" option doesn't. The only way to do a fresh install is from the preferences menu "Erase all content and settings", which kills the encryption keys, effectively erasing the disk volumes. Then you do a restore of data and apps.

So, my experiment did actually do a Timemachine restore I guess. < 1 hour isn't bad. Not sure how long a SuperDuper restore from image takes.

 

[TonyAguila]

OK, I see - the "fresh install" option doesn't. The only way to do a fresh install is from the preferences menu "Erase all content and settings", which kills the encryption keys, effectively erasing the disk volumes. Then you do a restore of data and apps.

So, my experiment did actually do a Timemachine restore I guess. < 1 hour isn't bad. Not sure how long a SuperDuper restore from image takes.

I did a “fresh” install before by first invoking Disk Utility and completely erasing the startup drive. You only create one APFS volume, named as what you want it, usually “Macintosh HD.” Recovery will then install macOS on the system partition and then create the -Data volume when you restore/migrate either from Time Machine or from a previous clone (much faster, especially if from SSD).

In fact, I have done this numerous times whenever I sensed “something wrong” with how the system is running, or simply for practice. But I don’t think Recovery will give you a choice on which version of macOS will be installed, usually the latest. It’s wise to have copies of older macOS installers saved.

Insofar as SuperDuper clones are concerned, I haven’t used it lately. I feel more comfortable with Carbon Copy Cloner. Restores from SSD takes a fraction of time compared to Time Machine on a hard drive.

 

[maw_walker]

OK, I've done that a few years ago with earlier MacOS/OSX versions but not recently. According to what I read, the "erase everything" option is how Monterey does it although I does remind me of how phones work. Obfuscating disk volumes and even formatting. I am going to give that a shot this evening - this is my primary machine and I still need it for a few more things today.

I had figured the use of cloning software was really to speed the process up. It doesn't give me anything out of the normal restore other than being faster, it sounds like. My NAS is running 2 WD Red NAS drives and my MacBook uses nvme media so the pull from the NAS is not going to be as fast as if source was an SSD obviously. All good, I am patient

 

[Reedand]

You'd be smart to ask Dave Nanian at the SuperDuper discussion forum.

Thanks! I tried, but support site has closed registration for new users, so Nanian is "unavailable" at his ShirtPocket discussion forums site. So I'm still wondering what I should do about this warning message concerning HSF+ and APFS formats.

 

[Reedand]

I am asking this out of curiosity: why SuperDuper? I have never backed up operating systems (Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS) because the installs are easy. I only back up my data so Time Machine has worked perfectly for me. On Linux and FreeBSD, rsync has worked perfectly and its essentially what Time Machine is doing.

What is the purpose of backing up an operating system image for a desktop?

Well, thanks for the question, which I can't answer with much information since I was only acting on the advice of a trusted Mac person who recommended making a bootable copy with Super Duper! Since I've had problem with SDup that I posted about, I'm returning to faithful Time Machine unless someone convinces me (again) that Super Duper! is worth pursuing to solve problem. Thanks!