SOLVED Option key startup doesn't work/Missing hard drive.

[ItsTiki]

I seem to have stumped another Mac discussion forum... let's see if Mac-Help members are smarter. To save time, I'm going to just repost the exchange I had over there.

***********************************************

Okay... been searching for two days, and maybe my Google-Fu isn't what it should be, but I can't find anyone else on the planet with my specific issue.

I have a Mac Pro 2.8 Quad Core (mid 2010) 16 GB ram running 10.12.6 Sierra as my "main system".

I also have a second drive with 10.6.8 Snow Leopard, because I have a couple old programs that are vital to my business and I want to continue to use, but aren't supported/won't work on higher systems. And I also have another tiny drive that has 10.7.5 Lion that I never use, and is almost a virgin install 2-3 years later.

When I want to use Snow Leopard, I restart and hold down Option, and choose that drive, and do the same to return to Sierra when I'm done... but that doesn't work any more. When I hold Option, the screen goes white, the fan and the drive seem to crank at top speed, and the drives never show up on the screen. I have to hit the power button to shut it down, and it restarts into Sierra by default. Both drives and all their files are accessible from the desktop.

When in Sierra, I can change the Startup Disk via Preferences, and it displays both Snow Leopard and Lion. But when in Snow Leopard, it doesn't show the Sierra drive, but it does show Lion. I could boot into Lion and that drive does see Sierra... kind of a hassle, doing a "double restart", but I can live with it if I have to. But now Lion doesn't see Sierra in the startup preferences anymore. I screwed around for an hour and somehow got back into my "main system" Sierra, but I'm afraid to try going to Snow Leopard again for fear I won't be able to get back to Sierra again, but I need those few programs.

I have learned that aluminum keyboards sometimes cause similar issues, but I have the older all-white one, as well as the white-with-black-keys model. Neither pulls up the OS picker now.

Bootcamp can create similar issues, but I don't do Windows...

I have confirmed the Option keys both work once I get to the desktop. Changing USB ports makes no difference.

Like I said, this just started a week ago. No changes, no updates, no new software or hardware installed, it just stopped working. What worked for years... just doesn't work any more.

Ran Disk Utility on all drives, all fine. Zapped the PRAM repeatedly. No other system issues, everything works great, this Mac runs like a watch... except that Option key thing... just for the last week.

I'm just outta gas. Unless you guys and gals can bestow some genius on me, my best option is to buy an old Mac off Craigslist and putting my Snow Leopard drive in that, so I don't HAVE to change OS... just didn't want another box and screen in my office.

Thanx in advance,

Tiki

*******************************************

(Member replied):

Do a 4-times continuously NVRAM reset, only let go the CMD-Option-P-R after the 5th chime.

Check the health of your drives, download DriveDX and see the SMART. You probably have a failed drive.

Btw, missing drives at BootPicker/bless not working from macOS is a known sign of a pre-brick.



********************************************

I replied:

(That member) was correct... the 5 zaps didn't work, so I downloaded the trial of DriveDX. It shows that my Snow Leopard drive is damaged, even though I can access the files. I wouldn't have guessed that... I always thought hard drives were a "it works or it doesn't" sort of proposition...

I forgot that Lion wasn't a drive, it's a small partition on the Snow Leopard drive, that's how little I have used it. The other two bays I use as storage, and it appears they are both at around 60% of their predicted lifespan.

Might have to buy DriveDX... feels like 20 bucks well spent.

Thanx again, (that member)... I'm completely unaccustomed to getting the correct answer on the first try!


******************************************************


I was confident that my problem was solved... I ordered up a 4 TB drive to replace my aging 640 GB drive, erased and formatted it, created two partitions, used Disk Utility's Restore function to replicate both Snow Leopard and Lion partitions, and voila'... there's my stuff.

All start-up disks show in Preferences, so I restarted and held down Option, and I still have the same problem. The screen goes white (not soft gray), the fan cranks, and the system picker doesn't appear.

Hit power button to shut down.

Restarted into Sierra, set my start-up disk to Snow Leopard, restarted, and everything works great... my programs work fine. Go to Start-up Disk, but it does not show the Sierra drive, only Lion.

Restart into Lion, it works great, but no Sierra in Start-up Preferences. Can't get back to the Sierra drive via Start-up Preferences or the Option key, so, as long as I have the door off the side, I just shut down and pulled the new HD out to get back to Sierra.

I don't get it... Did I copy flawed data to the new drive? Was my problem not mechanical?

Should I try to restore a copy from a month ago (before this happened) via Time Machine?

 

[ItsTiki]

CAN'T WAIT to mark this solved...

 

[Cory Cooper]

Hello and welcome.

-Haven't heard of "Do a 4-times continuously NVRAM reset" - no reason for more than initial chime then waiting for the second chime in my experience (one NVRAM/PRAM reset cycle) as explained in Apple's article below
-Good try with the multiple and different versions of the Apple keyboards - have seen that be an issue with older Macs and some startup key commands.

On first look, there are a couple of things:
-Try How to reset the SMC of your Mac and then Reset NVRAM or PRAM on your Mac (didn't see you had reset the SMC)
-Have you tried starting up fully in safe mode, then restart normally. Then restart with Option-boot?
-Reseat the RAM and/or remove any non-Apple RAM
-Is RAM installed in the correct "paired" slots?
-Original Apple OEM graphics cards or third-party replacement?
-Are the date and time correct? Maybe an exhausted CR2032 PRAM battery?
-Have you tried it with only two OS drives in and/or switched the bays the drives are in?

I think I remember a few unique issues with that model, so let me look around a bit more and get back to you.

C

 

[ItsTiki]

Thank you for your help, Cory... some of your suggestions I can check off, a few I need to examine... but I am having a tween girl's study nite-pizza party-sleepover here that I have to referee...

I will check back with answers tomorrow!

 

[Cory Cooper]

No worries.

Let us know and we'll go from there.

C

 

[ItsTiki]

Okay... if I am reading your article on the SMC correctly, that's just a matter of unplugging the unit. I was unplugged the entire time I screwed to new drive into the sled, so that should suffice.

Starting into safe mode then a normal reboot had no effect.

The RAM is an upgrade from OWC, installed last May or so... I'm told they are quality chips, but I removed them and replaced them anyway. No effect.

The graphics card I assume is stock; I didn't replace it, but I did buy the machine refurbished... it's a ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB... has always worked great for years in my dual-monitor setup.

Time and date are correct, but for 2 bucks, why not change the battery? Last time I changed a Mac battery was in my G4, I think... quick and easy... but OF COURSE this battery is behind the graphics card and not readily accessible!

I watched a video on changing this battery, but when I remove the little thumb screws on the bracket that locks the graphics card in place, I can't seem to get it loose. It feels like it still has a screw holding it in place. I leaned on it fairly hard, but it is really locked down tight, and I'm afraid of breaking something. I pushed from the outside and pulled from the inside, gently wiggling, but it isn't budging in the slightest. Is there a trick to getting this out?

Finally, I took out all drives except Sierra. I started, then did an Option-Restart, and did not get the system picker. Before I would see the copies of the start-up disks on my Time Machine drive, but I still get the white screen/ screaming fan with no OS picker.

Could this problem be on the Sierra drive?

 

[Cory Cooper]

Hi,

Use, the SMC reset is simply unplugging the power, but also everything else connected.

Yes, I use OWC RAM as well...it's just a good troubleshooting step to only have the original Apple RAM installed.

The ATI Radeon HD 5770 is an Apple OEM graphics card.

Not a bad idea to change the PRAM battery, especially after 5-10 years of age. On this Mac Pro, it is a little more difficult, because it requires removal of the graphics card, which needs to be done cautiously. The metal bracket should have two captive screws that need to be completely loosened for it to slide up slightly and out. You also need to push the button on the grey slot cover to the left of the card (towards the front of the case) and slide it to the left to unlock the graphics card - there is a metal rod that you will see slide to the left between the graphcs card and the logic board, as seen in this video:

Mac Pro Upgrade: ATI 5870 Graphics Card

The battery removal can be tricky too - a nylon probe tool is handy to get the battery out. It needs to slide toward the back of the cast, don't pry up the silver clip holding it in the socket. It's a good inexpensive troubleshooting step, but not totally necessary if the date & time are correct.

Try it with a single drive in the first bay - and not the Sierra drive. Yes, it could be an issue with that drive, which we'll know if another works.

C

 

[ItsTiki]

I am extremely pleased to report that my computer is working again and I have replaced the door. It seems that replacing the battery fixed all my issues, even though my date and time settings weren't wonky. Two bucks well spent, no doubt about it. It may well have been the original factory battery, slowly coming to the end of its life.

I'd have never thought of that without your suggestion, Cory. Hats off to you, brother. I'd love to buy you a beer or a coffee, because I was eyeballing a used Mac Pro on Craigslist for $400. Thank you so much for engaging my problem!

I am now going to gleefully click that "SOLVED" button, and get ready for what should be the best Superbowl in 19 years... the last time the Buccaneers won. Go Bucs!

 

[Cory Cooper]

Excellent! Glad to hear it was a simple and inexpensive fix. Agreed...I would guess the battery was about to be totally exhausted then, so good to replace it now.

No worries, that's why we're here!

Enjoy the game, but I am afraid the Chiefs will repeat. I lived in FL in the late '80s/early '90s and saw a game in the old Tampa Stadium from the Hooters Rooters section when Testeverde was there. And currently being a New Englander, Brady is dead to me.

Stay healthy and safe!

C