More Disappointments with High Sierra

[honestone]

Earlier today, I ran through my normal, weekly disk cleanup/maintenance/repair tasks for both of my Macs. I first started with Repairing Permissions (need to do that separately), then ran Onyx and Tech Tool Pro. Everything went fine, although it's still taking a good amount of time to 1) restart from Tech Tool Pro's eDrive, and 2) quit the eDrive and restart from each Mac's internal SSD. But the surprise came when I started to use SuperDuper! (the latest version, V3.1.1) for my backups. As I have mentioned before, I have two external Samsung 850 Pro 512 gig SSDs each inside nice, slim Orico enclosures, with the connection to each of my Macs being via USB 3.0. On each of those drives, there are 3 partitions: one is for my Mac Mini backup, one for my Mac Book Air backup, and the other contains other "stuff". Each partition (especially the ones for the backups) are more than big enough in terms of space allocated. Finally, each partition is formatted as Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

So, when I started SuperDuper! on each machine, after getting the source drive (the internal SSD on the respective Mac) "ready", it then Erases the destination drive (partition in my case), gets it ready, and then proceeds with the backup. For the Mac Book Air, this worked fine, as it always has. But, for whatever reason, when SuperDuper! tried to Erase the destination partition on the Mac Mini, it came up with an error, just saying it could not Erase the partition. Talk about being baffling! I never, never had this issue before, even when I was using HDDs. I then tried to Erase and re-format the partition with Disk Utility, again as Mac OS Extended. But then same error happened. And that was the case for both external drives! Meanwhile, each of the 2 backups for the Mac Book Air went perfectly. I was truly perplexed!

Then, I decided to try something: again using Disk Utility (the version that comes with High Sierra), I erased and re-formatted each of those two Mac Mini backup partitions, but this time formatting them as APFS. Well low and behold, that worked! The SuperDuper! backups proceeded like they always have.

So, I am just at a loss as to why the backups worked with the Mac Book Air, with its backup partition on each external SSD formatted as Mac OS Extended (Journaled), but for the Mac Mini, the two partitions for the backups (one on each device) needed to be formatted as APFS. And it makes it more perplexing as to where the "blame" lies: with SuperDuper! (latest version, V3.1.1), or High Sierra (latest version, V10.13.2) or both?

Next, though, is when I encountered something strange, and also more speed issues. I wanted to make sure that the Mac Mini backup would start up. So, as normal, when I started up my Mac Mini, I held down the Option key. In the past, as most folks know, what would happen is that a horizontal "list" of bootable devices would appear (and this happed while holding down the Option key until that "list" screen started to appear). But, for whatever reason, that does not seem to be the case with High Sierra. While continuing to hold down the Option key, I just had a dark screen. But when I finally released the Option key, then the "list" screen appeared. Next, when I selected that external Mac Mini backup device, it took a rather long time for the start up screen to appear, and then a long time for it to boot up. I of course was not expecting that boot up process to be as quick as when I boot each of my Macs from their respective internal SSDs, but this was definitely slower than with Sierra.

Similarly, after booting to that back up partition, I then wanted to go back to booting from the Mac Mini's internal Samsung SSD. Well, that "switch" also took a long time (just like with Tech Tool Pro's eDrive), both getting to that start up screen, and the start up process itself.

So, in summary, it is certainly clear that starting up, "switching" start up devices, or trying to restart from the internal device, all with High Sierra is definitely a slow, disappointing process. Not sure if and when it will improve, but definitely a bummer now.

 

[bladerunner714]

Hmmmmmm .... Not sure I like the idea of 'disappointments' associated in any way with backups. Do you still feel secure in the integrity of your backups?

 

[honestone]

I don't think the "integrity" of my backups have been compromised. It's more of an issue of how much slower High Sierra is (and associated software with High Sierra is). One other disappointment that has happened with my Mac Mini is that since I made those backups yesterday, when I start up my Mac Mini "like normal", ie, from its internal SSD, it is now taking longer for the start up screen to appear (I have a Sony 19" monitor connected to the Mac Mini). That never happened with Sierra (or any earlier Mac OS). Contrast that with my Mac Book Air, starting up is much faster (although still not as fast as with Sierra).

I keep "waffling" back and forth as to whether or not I should go back to Sierra, especially with really nothing earth shattering in High Sierra. I just don't believe I would give up anything going back. On the contrary, the speed would be back.

 

[bladerunner714]

Thanks Honestone - Keep us posted.

 

[Cory Cooper]

honestone,

High Sierra is slower to startup than previous versions of OS X. I can confirm this on iMac, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro.

For performance issues, try checking the box next to  > System Preferences... > Accessibility > Reduce transparency. That should help a little on older Macs and those with shared video memory/non-dedicated VRAM. That's actually a good step for Yosemite and newer, as the graphics performance of the older Mac video chips is bogged down by the newer interface tweaks.

See if that helps a bit,

C

 

[honestone]

Thanks, Cory.

Actually, just about all my apps are performing fine (except for that perplexing behavior by SuperDuper!). And starting up on my MacBook Air is actually not that slow (still somewhat slower than with Sierra). But it's the starting up/switching start up devices/switching back to my internal SSD that is definitely slow as molasses, especially on my Mac Mini. In fact, it is getting to be rather non-productive.

Also, when I tried yesterday to downgrade the OS from High Sierra to Sierra on my Mac Mini, it would not let me. Instead, I needed to create a bootable Sierra OS on a flash drive. I used DiskMaker Pro for that process, and it took some time. But, I have not downgraded yet. I actually needed to do a re-installation (clean, fresh) of High Sierra (I had Erased and Formatted the internal SSD partition containing all my start up stuff), and then a migration of the stuff from my backup. But starting up/switching, etc. on the Mac Mini still is a big disappointment.

Again, it seems that "upgrading" to High Sierra does not offer me any real benefits (based on what I use my Macs for), and in fact, it feels like a step backwards in terms to starting up/switching, etc. Can someone offer me any real reason/reasons why I should remain with High Sierra? I am getting more and more dismayed with each passing day.

 

[bladerunner714]

Honestone: You recall my recent history with Apple is about a year old. If we stay with Sierra, how long will it be before we start having compatibility and other sorts of support issues for having a non-current OS? Absent those concerns, I'm still waiting to hear a good reason to upgrade.

 

[honestone]

That is an excellent question, bladerunner714. It seems, though, that just about all apps retain compatibility with at least 3 or 4 prior versions of the Mac OS. One app, Onyx, actually makes specific versions for each Mac OS.

Maybe Spawn_Dooley has the right idea: skip High Sierra, and wait for the next Mac OS. That could be a very wise strategy.

 

[bladerunner714]

Falling behind on the OS makes me vaguely uneasy but perhaps in this case it might be best.

 

[bladerunner714]

Honestone (and others): My curiosity lured me to Apple’s web site where I spent a short while browsing the discussions in the macOS High Sierra Support Community. There are lots of posts there from lots of folks with lots of issues with this upgrade. Problems range from failure to install to failure to boot after installation to broken drivers to broken apps (even including Apple’s own Mail app) to mysterious involuntary system shut downs. I suspect that many of these are training issues or may be the result of poor planning but, unless there’s a compelling reason to upgrade now (and I haven’t seen any), it might still be better to give Apple a little more time to get this one right before jumping in.

 

[honestone]

Thanks for that report, bladerunner714. I also saw on Micromat's site (they make Tech Tool Pro) issues folks encountered with High Sierra, as well as "problematic" statements from Shirt Pocket Software (they make SuperDuper!) and Bombich Software (they make Carbon Copy Cloner). And of course we've seen a number of reported issues here.

Additionally, Disk Warrior still has not been upgraded for full High Sierra compatibility. And a lot of the issues you and I have seen could be due to upgrading to High Sierra "in place", ie, just have High Sierra basically overwrite what was on one's Mac. That could be problematic for another reason: non-compatibility of third party applications with High Sierra, ie, one sees the prompt for Apple to upgrade, clicks on the upgrade button, and voila, High Sierra is installed.

Just to be fair and balanced, except for the slow start ups (both when I first turn on either machine, and also when switching start up drives, and then switching back), and except for that bizarre, perplexing behavior from SuperDuper! (the backup itself is actually fine), things have gone smoothly. I've had no installation issues (both with the OS itself, and Tech Tool Pro's eDrive (some folks on Micromat's site reported problems with that)). (I suspect a good reason for that is because I did a fresh, clean, "virgin"installation of High Sierra). And don't know why, but Google Chrome seems snappier (there was a recent update for Chrome a couple of days ago).

Whenever a new Mac OS arrives, one hears that it is better to wait for at least the first (".1") release. I actually did that for El Capitan and Sierra, but that was due to a couple of my critical apps not having compatibility upgrades available. For High Sierra, shortly after the ".2" version was released, the upgrade for Tech Tool Pro was available. But the ".1" and ".2" upgrades for High Sierra have not contained many fixes, and really none to "write home about".

I understand about not wanting to fall behind with the Mac OS. But I am willing to bet that many folks are happily running Sierra (and maybe some other "older" versions of the Mac OS). Also, for all my third party apps, none of them have been "abandoned" regarding Sierra compatibility. I suspect it will remain that way for some time.

There is the possibility that High Sierra will improve with further "." releases by Apple. So, staying with Sierra now (or in my case, going back) would be just fine. Whether I did that or not, I would still keep a close eye on High Sierra developments.

 

[bladerunner714]

That's my plan exactly, Honestone; watchful waiting!

 

[honestone]

Smart plan! I'm going to wait a couple of more days to see how the Mac Mini performs. Ironically, the Mac Book Air's performance (in terms of starting up and shutting down) is better (although still not as fast as with Sierra). And Google Chrome is faster on the Mac Mini recently.

 

[Pasquanel]

My experience so far has been nothing but positive, everything works and I find to be very fast overall.
Boot time initially was 2 to 3 times slower but now it's about 20/25 seconds.
I used my original spinner through a usb3 connection and SuperDuper beta for the upgrade.

 

[honestone]

For my Mac Book Air (I just bought a new one: a mid 2017 13" 256 gig SSD model, with 8 gig of Ram), start up times are slowly improving. But for my Mac Mini, that is where I am really disappointed. It is definitely taking an unacceptable amount of time for the Apple symbol to appear on the attached Sony 19" monitor. It was MUCH faster with Sierra.

But except for the minor glitch with Quicken 2007, everything is working fine. But I am not "blown away" by High Sierra.

 

[Pasquanel]

[QUOTE=" But for my Mac Mini, that is where I am really disappointed. It is definitely taking an unacceptable amount of time for the Apple symbol to appear on the attached Sony 19" monitor. It was MUCH faster with Sierra.[/QUOTE]

Mine was about the same at first but once it settles in it boots right up.
Initially, I would hear the bootup tone and it would take 30/40 seconds before the Apple symbol would appear and then about 45 seconds to boot.
Give it a chance it works great.

 

[honestone]

[QUOTE=" But for my Mac Mini, that is where I am really disappointed. It is definitely taking an unacceptable amount of time for the Apple symbol to appear on the attached Sony 19" monitor. It was MUCH faster with Sierra.

Mine was about the same at first but once it settles in it boots right up.
Initially, I would hear the bootup tone and it would take 30/40 seconds before the Apple symbol would appear and then about 45 seconds to boot.
Give it a chance it works great.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that. However, would like to know if you have a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro. The Mac Mini or Mac Pro would, of course, have a monitor connected, just like my situation. If you have a iMac, not sure if the "connection process" for the start up screen would be as fast as with a Mac Book, Mac Book Air (my model), or a Mac Book Pro.

Again, for my (new) 13" Mac Book Air, it is faster than the Mini, but still not as fast as it was with Sierra.

 

[roroco]

Hmmmmmm .... Not sure I like the idea of 'disappointments' associated in any way with backups. Do you still feel secure in the integrity of your backups?

Also had problems with time delay in booting my MacBook Air. All changed when I removed my USB hum. Now. I remove that to start and then plug it in-all is OK! I do have a questions, I gotten a notification that the device drawing too much USB power has been shut down. 1) Why would it draw too much power and 2) what can I do about it? The device appears to be a CD/DVD external drive.

 

[Lufbrarunner]

Also had problems with time delay in booting my MacBook Air. All changed when I removed my USB hum. Now. I remove that to start and then plug it in-all is OK! I do have a questions, I gotten a notification that the device drawing too much USB power has been shut down. 1) Why would it draw too much power and 2) what can I do about it? The device appears to be a CD/DVD external drive.

Is the drive connected through a Hub or directly to the Mac?

 

[mike janowski]

I'm a video editor, running Adobe CC. ALL the gurus I follow strongly advise against High Sierra; it breaks plugins and runs poorly with Adobe, Avid and yes, even FCP! I'm staying put for now.