New drive format

[honestone]

Yeah I noticed that to on the drive sizes.

I actually had the bottom off earlier to get a feel for things and took the SSD out. The brand on it says Samsung.

If I remember correctly when I put the drives in the Mini they didn't show up for me to be able to format them for me to be able to clone them from a backup. I think I had to put them in a enclosure to format them. Wonder if that will be the case with the replacement drive?

Hmm, so the "512" gig SSD you took out of your Mac Book Pro is manufactured by Samsung. Wonder if it's a EVO or Pro "knock off?

Also, you stated that for that "Samsung" SSD, "the drive now gets around 300 read and 400 write". As you can see from the link I provided about the 850 Pro/850 EVO comparison, that is definitely below what those tests revealed. However, that link I provided was for "full size" Samsung SSDs, that is, ones that can go inside a Mac Mini, a Mac Pro, and in an external enclosure like you and I have. I can try actual tests done on the "card like" Samsung SSD you are getting (and which, I suspect, is the case for the Samsung SSD you removed).

Regarding your last question, as I suspect you know, when one boots up a Mac, holding down the Option key will reveal a "horizontal" list of bootable devices. I've always wondered how that will work when the boot device inside the Mac has nothing on it. If you have to first "prepare" the new Samsung SSD outside of your Mac Book Pro, and that "Option" technique does not work, it seems you have 2 choices:

1. Assuming you have an external enclosure that can accommodate that new SSD, attach it to your Mac Mini and do the Erasing, Formatting, and OS 10.13.2 installation there. (You'll need the OS 10.13.2 installation file for that, which you can get from the App store (in case you don't have it already)).

2. Install the SSD inside your Mac Book Pro. Attach it to your Mac Mini (a couple of ways to do that: either a Firewire 800 cable and a Thunderbolt-to-Firewire 800 adapter, or (I believe your Mac Mini has a Thunderbolt port) a Thunderbolt cable). Boot your Mac Mini, then boot up your Mac Book Pro in Target Disk Mode. You can then proceed with what I stated above about getting that SSD "ready".

I believe I read somewhere here previously that the Option "technique" I mentioned above will work, but I am not sure. Maybe Cory can chime in here. He has WAY more knowledge about this than myself.

 

[Cory Cooper]

You should be able to simply install the new SSD, boot to the clone, format the new drive, then clone over.

However, I have no experience with those adapters. Which exact model is your MBP?

C

 

[jtb123]

That's a good question about the SSD that's in the laptop now. It looks like the OEM as far as I can tell.

The Samsung 850 EVO that's in the Mini is really fast on the speeds but can't recall what they are.

I hadn't thought about using the Mini to get the new drive going. I was hoping there was a way to avoid having to buy an adaptor. Could that be done using a USB cable?

 

[honestone]

Thanks, Cory.

 

[jtb123]

You should be able to simply install the new SSD, boot to the clone, format the new drive, then clone over.

However, I have no experience with those adapters. Which exact model is your MBP?

C

That's what I was hoping for but like I said if I remember correctly I had to format the new drive outside the Mac Mini then install it then clone from an external. I could easily be mistaken since it's been awhile ago.

Mid 2012 rMBP 15" A1398

 

[honestone]

That's a good question about the SSD that's in the laptop now. It looks like the OEM as far as I can tell.

The Samsung 850 EVO that's in the Mini is really fast on the speeds but can't recall what they are.

I hadn't thought about using the Mini to get the new drive going. I was hoping there was a way to avoid having to buy an adaptor. Could that be done using a USB cable?

It looks like Cory answered your question about, about the "Option" booting technique. That would be the preferable way to go, especially since the CCC clone is a "High Sierra" one, ie, the High Sierra version of Disk Utility is there. As discussed earlier, you would use it to Erase and Format the new SSD as APFS. Then either to a fresh, clean installation of OS 10.13.2, and then do a "migration"/copy of needed "stuff" from your CCC backup, or a full restore from the CCC backup. I would do it the first way, just to be safe. Also, given that SuperDuper! does not backup the (hidden) Recovery HD partition that is the way I would be "forced" to go.

 

[jtb123]

Yeah that's what I'm hoping for. As long as the new drive will be recognized after I install it then boot from an external.

According to this video it can be done as Cory mentioned. That's kinda the main thing is the new drive being recognized so I can format it from the external.

There's also another video that I won't link with basically the same thing that they were able to boot from and external clone and run disk utility to format the new drive.

I guess we'll see when the new drive gets here. I appreciate it guys for the help.

 

[honestone]

Cool! That "option" method is the simplest. As you basically stated, after you choose to restart your Mac from your most recent CCC backup on your external drive, the machine will be booted from there. As I'm sure you know, you can then use all the available software on your CCC backup, and I believe that is a High Sierra backup. Thus, by launching Disk Utility from there, it will be the "High Sierra" version, and thus you would Erase the new SSD, and format it as APFS. For the next step, as I mentioned, you have a choice:

1. Clean, new, "virgin" installation of OS 10.13.2. Then, a "migration"/copying of needed "stuff" from the CCC backup.

2. A complete restore from the CCC backup.

Another thing, and I feel like a dunce! Given that your Mac Book Pro is a 2012 model, there is no way the Samsung SSD inside of it can be either and 850 Pro or an 850 EVO model. They did not make them at that time! I'm not even sure if it could be either and 840 Pro or 840 EVO model. I remember that when I installed the Samsung 840 Pro 256 gig SSD inside my Mac Mini, that was October 2013. Maybe the Samsung models at the time your Mac was assembled were either an 830 Pro or an 830 EVO (if they had such models then).

 

[jtb123]

Yeah I'm hoping it will go smooth.

Not at all! I've been all over the place in this thread so I have to even catch up in my head.

Again, I appreciate all the help.

 

[Gnaserty]

Thanks for your info

 

[jtb123]

I've ran into an issue. I was testing my cloned backup to make sure it's bootable but when I "option" on boot up it doesn't give the cloned backed as an option. I wiped the external drive and cloned everything back over and it still doesn't show up in the list. I've tried CCC and SuperDuper but still no luck. It shows up in system preferences under startup disk but when I chose it, it reboots and doesn't boot into the external. Any idea what could be going on? I've done this procedure for years with my mac mini and never had this issue.

The only thing I haven't tried yet is to format the external to APFS and clone to it. I formatted to macOS extended.

 

[honestone]

Sorry to hear that. My SuperDuper! backup does show up whether I hold down the Option key at start up (as I just did), or via the Startup Disk System Preference. I am actually typing this on my Mac Mini via the SuperDuper! backup I made this past Saturday. And I know it works when I choose the Mac Mini SuperDuper! backup from the Startup Disk System Preference. I can even choose the MacBook Air SuperDuper! backup while on the Mac Mini, and the Mini will boot from that clone.

As I suspect you know, APFS is really only useful if you have an SSD. But that "should" not make a difference. Both of my backup partitions on both of my external SSDs are formatted as APFS, but the third one (just contains various kinds of files) is formatted MacOS Extended. Here are the results of a google search of "APFS and HDDs":

https://www.google.com/search?q=APF...rome..69i57.4509j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I guess if you have SSDs, maybe formatting the applicable CCC partition as APFS will work. But I am baffled why you would have issues with such a partition being formatted as MacOS Extended (Journaled).

One thing that is frustrating, though, is how darn long it takes to switch start up devices. It was bad enough when I switched (via the Option key choice at start up) from my Mac Mini's internal SSD (256 gig Samsung Pro 840 SSD, less than 40% space used, and "lean, mean, and clean") to the MacMini SuperDuper! backup on the external SSD (Samsung 850 Pro 512 gig). And it was MUCH WORSE switching back, ie, from the MacMini SuperDuper! backup on the external SSD to the Mac Mini's internal SSD. It was definitely MUCH better with Sierra!

 

[jtb123]

Yes this is very odd. Tried on a different external cloned backup and it still on the list when I "Option" at boot up.
I really don't know what else to try. Like I said I used both SuperDuper and CCC and neither cloned backup is recognized.

Edit: I wiped the external and cloned it with no partitions and rebooted. It did recognize the backup and I was able to boot into it and everything worked as it should. I tried the whole process again but it wasn't recognized. I have no idea what's going on.

 

[jtb123]

I also reinstalled HS, didn't wipe the drive, and still have the issue. Also, when I reboot the external drive is listed. When I shut the computer down then boot up, the external doesn't show up.

Edit: I've seem to have got it working by not having the external drive plugged in. When I boot from a shutdown and in startup manager attach the drive, it will show up in the list.

Also, without starting a new thread and it's a very good possibility this has been covered, is there any difference in using SuperDuper over CCC? Is either "better" than the other?

 

[honestone]

I actually started a thread about backups a couple of months ago, and here is the "piece" about the differences between CCC and SuperDuper!:

"Third, before I go on, it would be good to mention the differences between SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner. First is cost: SuperDuper! costs $27.95, whereas Carbon Copy Cloner costs $39.95. From what I understand, the primary reason for that is that Carbon Copy Cloner also backs up the (hidden) Recovery HD partition, whereas SuperDuper! does not. I have never needed that partition (I'll explain below)."

Regarding why I don't need the Recovery Partition backed up, here are my reasons:

"It should be clear why I so much prefer using SuperDuper! (again, the process would be the same with Carbon Copy Cloner), but I'll list them here:

1. Everything is done "locally", ie, it is not dependent on the internet, along with me having much more control.

2. Re-starting my Mac from a SuperDuper! backup is MUCH faster than via the (hidden) Recover HD partition.

3. I know what exact Mac OS I'll be re-installing, and again, it is a "local" process.

4. Besides Disk Utility, I have access to other useful Mac apps, and in particular, Tech Tool Pro, an excellent disk cleanup/maintenance/repair program. For these reasons, that is why I really do not need the Recovery HD partition (along, of course, with having the applicable "Install macOS "whatever"" file).

4. It is faster and smoother."

I'm sure you know just about all that. And of course when one does a clean, fresh installation of the Mac OS, that Recovery partition gets created.

 

[jtb123]

Thanks for the reply honestone. I was leaning towards SD cause to me it seems very straight forward.

And thanks for tip on Tech Tool Pro.

 

[honestone]

You're welcome. You can actually use SuperDuper! in demo mode "for some time". When I first started using it, I used it in demo mode for close to a year. While using it in demo mode does not contain all of the features of SD, for my needs (just having a bootable backup) it was (and still is) fine. I did eventually purchase it, and it seems somewhat faster (although that might be subjective).

As for Tech Tool Pro, there are times (not too many) when it is on sale for $39.95 (they had such a sale back in November). Be aware, though, that there are times where some upgrades are not free. I know that some users complained about the most recent one, and while I was a little "miffed" about it (I paid for an upgrade back in June), the $29.95 upgrade fee this time was worth it. In fact, it was one of the primary reasons why I did not upgrade to High Sierra sooner.

There are 2 other fine products that are similar to Tech Tool Pro: the venerable Disk Warrior, and Drive Genius. Cost for either of them is roughly the same, but neither of them are fully compatible with High Sierra. Disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs is an important task. For disk cleanup, you can do a good amount on your own. I would also recommend you download, install, and run the excellent freeware program Onyx, available from here:

https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/onyx.html

Make sure you get the correct version.

And three other excellent free programs I recommend are:

1. AppCleaner - https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/

2. Grand Perspective - http://grandperspectiv.sourceforge.net/

3. Malwarebytes - https://www.malwarebytes.com/mac/

 

[jtb123]

Thanks again for the links I'll definitely look into them.

 

[honestone]

Thanks again for the links I'll definitely look into them.

You're most welcome.

 

[jtb123]

Just a quick update. I installed the new drive and everything seems to be working as it should. I booted from an external backup and the new drive did show up in Disk Utility and was able to format it and clone it from the external backup. It's about 150mb/s or more on read and write faster than the stock SSD that was in it.