Need advice on "Installing MAC OS 9 drivers"


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I have a G4 MDD (Firewire 400) which is able to run 10.3, 10.2, and 10.4.11. I am attempting to install OS 9 native so that I can access a SCSI tape drive (DLT). The SCSI board (Adaptec 2930) is definitely for the MAC. I have yet to be able to access the drive via the last version of OS indicated by adaptec (10.3). I see nothing in the /dev list which indicates that 10.3 senses the drive. Thus, I am attempting to install a standalone version of OS 9. I have tried to do this by os9general.dmg file, as well as MAC OS 9.2.2 Universal Install. However, at each and every of my many various attempts, the destination disc must be formatted with the option "MAC OS 9 Drivers." I have examined Disk Utility each and every time for such an option and I never seen this. There is an option on the "erase" tab, but this is to specify how the erasure is to occur. I have been following the instructions in both the A and B options described in https://support.apple.com/kb/TA20774, and several other locations, but in all cases there is no such OS 9 driver option given.

Thus, I am at a complete standstill and already have spent days trying every way to get around this problem, and would be most exceptionally appreciative in any suggestion towards resolving it.
 
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Addendum to my original posting:

I have discovered that Disk Utility 10.3 does have that option ("OS 9 drivers"), but that the subsequent versions, e.g., 10.4 do not. Disk Utility 10.4 is provided in OS 10.3, whereas Disk Utility 10.3 is provided in OS 10.2. However, when I am able to run Disk Util. 10.3, I can select a volume, but when I select a drive, the process dies immediately. Thus, no chance to erase/partition with "OS 9 drivers" option selected.

I start up classic 9, and then run Disk Setup, but it does not find any of the four drives present.
 

Cory Cooper

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Hello and welcome.

I will think about this for a bit and get back to you. It's been a while since I dealt with Rosetta, OS 9 Classic, and the old PowerPC G4 Macs, so I have to review some info to give you the best answer.

Sorry, and hang in there.

C
 
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thanks very much! I would be most appreciative in any help/direction you can give me.

I should make a correction: the version of the Disk Utility in OS 10.2 is actually 10.5.6. However, the DIsk Utility version 10.2 I was referring to and attempted to run is located in the folder 'Applications (MAC OS 9).' It starts up without a problem, and finds several of the hard discs. Moreover, it runs without evoking Classic 9. It crashes when I select a drive, any drive. I saved the crash report if that might be of any help.
 
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Cory Cooper

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Hello,

A few more thoughts:
-Your Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) will actually run up to OS X 10.5.8 Leopard.
-Where did you get the os9general.dmg file? Per the linked Apple article, you may need an actual Apple OS 9 install disc to install the drivers:
  • 1. Start up the computer from a Mac OS 9 CD (Note 2).
-Disk Utility from OS 9 run in OS X will probably always crash, since it wasn't designed to run under OS X's System.
-I have an Adaptec PowerDomain 39160 Ultra160SCSCI card for the Power Mac G3/G4, and it came with a disc that contained: SCSI Probe and the PowerDomain Control Utility applications for OS 9. Do you have SCSIProbe installed?

PowerDomain 2930 software downloads

-Did you set the SCSI IDs and SCSI termination properly - VERY important.
-What brand/model is the SCSI DLT drive?
-Yes, the crash report may be helpful.

Thanks,

C
 
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Hello,

A few more thoughts:
-Your Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) will actually run up to OS X 10.5.8 Leopard.
-Where did you get the os9general.dmg file? Per the linked Apple article, you may need an actual Apple OS 9 install disc to install the drivers:
  • 1. Start up the computer from a Mac OS 9 CD (Note 2).
-Disk Utility from OS 9 run in OS X will probably always crash, since it wasn't designed to run under OS X's System.
-I have an Adaptec PowerDomain 39160 Ultra160SCSCI card for the Power Mac G3/G4, and it came with a disc that contained: SCSI Probe and the PowerDomain Control Utility applications for OS 9. Do you have SCSIProbe installed?

PowerDomain 2930 software downloads

-Did you set the SCSI IDs and SCSI termination properly - VERY important.
-What brand/model is the SCSI DLT drive?
-Yes, the crash report may be helpful.

Thanks,

C
Hi Cory,

Thank you for your comments.

In reviewing material in preparing a response to you, I discovered what may be a problem, if not the problem. For some reason, I do not remember, I was led to believe that the G4 MDD was Firewire 400, which allows the 9.2.2 (e.g., from macintoshgarden.org) to be installed. However, upon checking the System Profile information, it is actually Firewire 800. Thus, in principle any attempt to install may fail.

A comment from the following URL I believe is a notification that the G4 I have (Firewire 800) cannot install the OS 9 by any means. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,305.0.html

“This latter archive was created from the original apple software that was included with an MDD 1.25 GHZ. FW400 G4 2003, the last official G4 tower that could boot directly to Mac OS 9. “

I had originally written a longish response to your message, with clarifications etc. However, based upon the aforementioned, I think there is no way I can run OS 9 native on my G4.

I have attempted another approach, using OS 10.3. This has gotten me further, yet I have reached a seemingly impenetrable point. But first, a few words for a backgrounder:

The tape drive is a DELL Powervault 110T. The tapes were written on this drive about 15 years ago using tar. (The drive is turned on prior to booting the G4.) The DLT drive is the only SCSI device attached. Its unit number is 2. A 68-pin male cable is attached to one of the two DLT’s connectors. The other end of that cable goes to the 50-pin connector on the SCSI board. The other connector on the DLT is terminated. There are no internal SCSI devices. Only the external DLT drive. The internal SCSI connector on the board has not been terminated, which I presume is not required given no internal SCSIs.

Thus, I am currently concentrating on getting SCSI to work with 10.3. The board is recognized by the system as indicated by the system profile (see attached).

Unfortunately, there is a problem, one I am definitely not qualified to even begin to consider how to overcome it. I connect the SCSI device to the SCSI board via the 68-pin-to-50-pin cable, turn on the device and boot the computer. The computer gets hung in the stage with a white screen, grey apple logo, and the progress/activity wheel rotates without end. If I refrain from connecting the SCSI cable to the board, I can get a successful boot.

As you may notice, there are two SCSI cards sensed. I have connected each one to the DLT drive and then turned on the drive/booted computer. Either one will hang the system as described above.

Additionally, I have tried a second DLT drive (HP surestore Ultrium 230). The hanging problem is still present. Also, the hanging problem is present when the drive is turned off, but the cable is still connected between board and drive.

Thus, I am stumped. No idea as to what to do. Any suggestions?

My aim is to read these tapes and then sell both my G4 and my 8-core G5. I am now using linux nearly exclusively on other machines that are more amenable transport.

Best!

jasper
 

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Cory Cooper

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Hello,

Both the Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) and Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors 2003) only had built-in FireWire 400, not FireWire 800. It should be able to boot OS 9.2.2 natively, as well as run it in Classic mode with OS X Tiger. You may just have to install OS 9 via a CD:
Screen Shot 2020-06-29 at 17.05.47.png

Screen Shot 2020-06-29 at 17.06.06.png

There was another model called the Power Mac G4 (FW800) that had both a FireWire 400 and FireWire 800 port. Perhaps yours isn't a MDD and may be a diffferent model. I suggest entering your serial number here to get the exact model we are dealing with: Check Your Service and Support Coverage

I am not sure your Mac will be able to mount and use a DELL Powervault 110T DLT drive, as there were very few cross-platform DLT drives back in the day. I did a quick search, and Dell's website doesn't show any compatibility for Macs or OS 9/X. I believe that is why you are getting the freeze when the DLT drive is connected to the Power Mac.

Honestly, I donb;t think there is a way to retrieve the data from those tapes using a Mac. You would need an old PC with SCSI and a compatible OS to be able to mount and read those DLT tapes with that drive.

C
 
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Hello,

Both the Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) and Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors 2003) only had built-in FireWire 400, not FireWire 800. It should be able to boot OS 9.2.2 natively, as well as run it in Classic mode with OS X Tiger. You may just have to install OS 9 via a CD:
View attachment 3545
View attachment 3546
There was another model called the Power Mac G4 (FW800) that had both a FireWire 400 and FireWire 800 port. Perhaps yours isn't a MDD and may be a diffferent model. I suggest entering your serial number here to get the exact model we are dealing with: Check Your Service and Support Coverage

I am not sure your Mac will be able to mount and use a DELL Powervault 110T DLT drive, as there were very few cross-platform DLT drives back in the day. I did a quick search, and Dell's website doesn't show any compatibility for Macs or OS 9/X. I believe that is why you are getting the freeze when the DLT drive is connected to the Power Mac.

Honestly, I donb;t think there is a way to retrieve the data from those tapes using a Mac. You would need an old PC with SCSI and a compatible OS to be able to mount and read those DLT tapes with that drive.

C
Good Morning!

Thank you for your comments and insight.

Upon checking with everymac.com, they designate the G4 as FW800. I did check a few days ago the rear connectors and there are two for FW400 and one for FW800. Interesting that the FW800 was produced for less than six months.

You raise a good point which I had not considered: that the DLT may not be mac-compatible. I naively would have thought SCSI protocol is standard. Though if that is the reason, then the other DLT drive, HP Ultrium 230 would also have to be incompatible.

My backup plan has been to get an old PC and I had already pinpointed one on ebay with the right configuration. I have most old versions of windows present already.

Thanks again for your help. Most appreciated!
jasper
 
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Cory Cooper

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No worries...thought it may be that model, since it has FireWire 800. That model was the introduction of FireWire 800 on Macs, and it led to the switchover to the Power Mac G5 series.

I would guess that the HP Ultrium 230 wouldn't work either, since most old DLT drives were only designed for Windows PCs and such. There were a few Mac-compatible drives, but brands/models are lost in time from my mind. ;)

The SCSI protocol is standardized, but not all drives had cross-platform drivers, especially the more specialized units and those manufactured by "PC" hardware companies.

Good luck with the PC and hope it allows you to get your data off those old DLTs.

C
 

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