External drive won't upgrade MacOS successfully

[Howard Brazee]

I used Carbon Copy Clone to duplicate my M1 iMac's drive.

Actually, I made two clones, one with a 2TB disk drive that is too slow to use, and one to a 1TB SSD that is missing music, photos, & movies to fit on that drive.

When I boot to the 1TB, it tells me that it can upgrade to MacOS 12.5.1.

So I set that drive up as my default drive, and made that upgrade. Six times, I made that upgrade. Any idea why the upgrade doesn't stick?

 

[TonyAguila]

I used Carbon Copy Clone to duplicate my M1 iMac's drive.

Actually, I made two clones, one with a 2TB disk drive that is too slow to use, and one to a 1TB SSD that is missing music, photos, & movies to fit on that drive.

When I boot to the 1TB, it tells me that it can upgrade to MacOS 12.5.1.

So I set that drive up as my default drive, and made that upgrade. Six times, I made that upgrade. Any idea why the upgrade doesn't stick?

I’m perplexed, Howard. As far as I’m aware, Carbon Copy Cloner cannot create bootable copies of macOS system drives. It just copies the data partition. Have you tried running Software Update directly from System Preferences? It should be able to update macOS to the latest version.

If you want to preserve a copy of the system installer for future use, you could download it from the App Store. Once the download is complete, it will launch the installer automatically. Quit it for now, make a copy to another location, and then proceed with the update by double-clicking the copy in your Applications folder.

I’m just curious. If you open Startup Disk in System Preferences, does it list the clones that you made?

 

[Howard Brazee]

I can boot up to those drives two different ways, I can either hold my startup button down until I get a choice, or I can select a startup disk in "System Preferences". In my boot process sometimes I have to give my Mac password a couple of times.

 

[TonyAguila]

I can boot up to those drives two different ways, I can either hold my startup button down until I get a choice, or I can select a startup disk in "System Preferences". In my boot process sometimes I have to give my Mac password a couple of times.

And you said you used Carbon Copy Cloner to create them from your internal drive? What version of CCC are you running?

 

[Howard Brazee]

6.12 (7359).

I may be confused, I tried out CCC and SuperDuper, and ended up buying CCC. But its marketing in places like https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/7032/carbon-copy-cloner say it creates a bootable drive.

When I boot to it, I have to turn off automatically starting stuff like Mail that I don't want run. I have turned off automatic MacOS updates, and told Time Machine to not back up those drives. My goal is to have a place to run a program that failed with a previous MacOS update.

Well, one of the cloned disks uses the current MacOS, the other won't update.

 

[TonyAguila]

6.12 (7359).

I may be confused, I tried out CCC and SuperDuper, and ended up buying CCC. But its marketing in places like https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/7032/carbon-copy-cloner say it creates a bootable drive.

When I boot to it, I have to turn off automatically starting stuff like Mail that I don't want run. I have turned off automatic MacOS updates, and told Time Machine to not back up those drives. My goal is to have a place to run a program that failed with a previous MacOS update.

Well, one of the cloned disks uses the current MacOS, the other won't update.

I just checked macupdate.com and it does indeed claim that CCC makes bootable copies. They have version 6.1.2 and I have version 6.1.3 beta because I’m also a beta tester for Bombich. It does not matter to me because I have never had success with cloning programs, not SuperDuper!, Chronosync, nor Carbon Copy Cloner. They eventually turn out to be “weird.” So my trusted formula is to clone the Data partition, then install a fresh copy of macOS, and then migrate from the cloned Data partition.

You have to go with whatever works for you, but it doesn’t seem like bootable clones are working either. If I imagine your setup, what I would do to create a reliable macOS drive independent of your internal drive, is to download, in your case, the current version 12.5.1 installer via App Store, save it. Then format your target drive as APFS, launch the macOS installer and select that target drive for the installation. Your level of migration afterwards will be under your control.

 

[Howard Brazee]

I got started in this when an upgrade to macOS added Universal Control and made it so that my M1 iMac couldn't run two HDMI ports. It took me a while before I discovered that I could buy an HDMI controller that used DisplayLink. So I wanted a way to make sure I could always boot to an earlier version of MacOS. I seem to be able to boot to either external drive, but just can't update the macOS on one. I'll try cloning it again. Also, recently, when booting to them, I have had to enter my Mac password a bunch of times, and my AppleID password a couple of times.

 

[TonyAguila]

I got started in this when an upgrade to macOS added Universal Control and made it so that my M1 iMac couldn't run two HDMI ports. It took me a while before I discovered that I could buy an HDMI controller that used DisplayLink. So I wanted a way to make sure I could always boot to an earlier version of MacOS. I seem to be able to boot to either external drive, but just can't update the macOS on one. I'll try cloning it again. Also, recently, when booting to them, I have had to enter my Mac password a bunch of times, and my AppleID password a couple of times.

In my comment regarding bootable clones—weird. If all else fails, give doing a fresh install on a blank (APFS) drive a try. I do this routinely. On my 2018 intel Mac mini, I have boot drives from Mojave all the way to Ventura. On my M1 Max Studio, I can only have Monterey and Ventura, but I still maintain two installations of Ventura, internal and external SSD. Talk about weird… I have encountered a lot of them. E.g., in Ventura beta on the internal drive, I cannot run the scanner on my printer; but the same version of macOS 13, attached SSD, can scan from the same printer flawlessly. Same hardware, identical drivers, etc. One would expect less compatibility when operating from the external drive.

If you need more connections, I can point you to an excellent Thunderbolt hub…

 

[37Shannon]

I got started in this when an upgrade to macOS added Universal Control and made it so that my M1 iMac couldn't run two HDMI ports. It took me a while before I discovered that I could buy an HDMI controller that used DisplayLink. So I wanted a way to make sure I could always boot to an earlier version of MacOS. I seem to be able to boot to either external drive, but just can't update the macOS on one. I'll try cloning it again. Also, recently, when booting to them, I have had to enter my Mac password a bunch of times, and my AppleID password a couple of times.

I've been down this road before. CCC Release 6 does create bootable external drives, because that is what I do. My Mac Mini has an internal HD that is not able to run Catalina or above hardly at all (due to APFS), so I installed Catalina to one external drive and CCC'ed it to another external drive (I have two) and I let my internal HD stay with El Capitan. That way I can always boot off my internal HD to obtain a running system that I can use to build a newer system (although I've never actually HAD to do this, but it seems like a good idea - belt and suspenders, you know).

R6 is not a free upgrade unless you purchased R5 within a year before R6 was introduced (which allowed me to squeak through at no cost). I've used CCC and SuperDuper - both can create bootable external drives - after using both, I prefer CCC.

By the way, if you have the means to do so, make your primary bootable external drive an SSD - you won't believe the difference.

 

[Harry Trent]

I've used CC many time to clone Mac system drives and I've used SuperDuper as well. Both have worked well for me.

 

[Peter Aretin]

I sure find this thread perplexing. I have made many clones of internal boot drives with CCC and boot from them with no difficulty. MY normal way of backing up is by updating one or more of these clones.

 

[Harry Trent]

If there are problems with the cloned drive after using CC or SuperDuper perhaps this indicates a drive that that was failing because of bad sectors?

 

[37Shannon]

I sure find this thread perplexing. I have made many clones of internal boot drives with CCC and boot from them with no difficulty. MY normal way of backing up is by updating one or more of these clones.

Yep - same here.

 

[Bill H]

I used Carbon Copy Clone to duplicate my M1 iMac's drive.

Actually, I made two clones, one with a 2TB disk drive that is too slow to use, and one to a 1TB SSD that is missing music, photos, & movies to fit on that drive.

When I boot to the 1TB, it tells me that it can upgrade to MacOS 12.5.1.

So I set that drive up as my default drive, and made that upgrade. Six times, I made that upgrade. Any idea why the upgrade doesn't stick?

I think the issue is not being able for Apple to find the system board Ser#
Upgrades are verified by board machine info.

 

[Harry Trent]

I think the issue is not being able for Apple to find the system board Ser#
Upgrades are verified by board machine info.

And what could cause this? I think they call this the MAC address. (MAC=Machine Access Control).

 

[Howard Brazee]

I've been down this road before. CCC Release 6 does create bootable external drives, because that is what I do. My Mac Mini has an internal HD that is not able to run Catalina or above hardly at all (due to APFS), so I installed Catalina to one external drive and CCC'ed it to another external drive (I have two) and I let my internal HD stay with El Capitan. That way I can always boot off my internal HD to obtain a running system that I can use to build a newer system (although I've never actually HAD to do this, but it seems like a good idea - belt and suspenders, you know).

R6 is not a free upgrade unless you purchased R5 within a year before R6 was introduced (which allowed me to squeak through at no cost). I've used CCC and SuperDuper - both can create bootable external drives - after using both, I prefer CCC.

By the way, if you have the means to do so, make your primary bootable external drive an SSD - you won't believe the difference.

I created a 1TB SSD bootable drive, and it is usable. I had to not clone my music, photos, & movies to fit. I also created a 2TB bootable disk drive and it is too slow.

I contacted CCC and was told that it can't be made bootable since Apple changed something with Catalina. Well, I made bootable drives before I paid for it, and after I found a review that said it made bootable drives. But I can't upgrade my MacOS in my 1TB drive. I keep trying and it doesn't upgrade. CCC said it is not a viable solution anymore.

My own personal needs do not see any reason to clone drives as just backups. Time Machine does that. The reason I bought it was so that I could boot to an external drive. (I had a program I need fail with a MacOS upgrade and it took me several weeks to resolve that problem. I wish I had been able to run it from my backup boot drive).

I asked Mike Bombich (CCC) if I could erase my drive and then run CCC to recreate it and his reply was:
"One option to consider would be to create a "legacy bootable copy" of the system onto an external device (freshly formatted, the name isn't relevant), then boot from that device and test out your software updates there. If the software update doesn't break anything, then you can boot from the internal startup disk and apply the update there."

I think that means yes, so I'll try it.

 

[Howard Brazee]

Update:

Since I was unable to upgrade my MacOS on my clone drive from MacOS 12.5 to 12.5.1, this morning, on my M1 iMac, I erased my 1TB SSD drive, then ran CCC using the Legacy Bootable Copy Assistant.

Then I booted up to the SSD. I had to enter my Mac password in two different places, and I discovered that everything that I had open when I ran CCC was open on the clone. I rebooted and didn’t need to enter my Mac password again. My MacOS is 12.5.1 and I tested the program that broke with an earlier MacOS upgrade. Everything’s good.

It’s not obvious to me how to determine whether I am running from my main drive or my clone drive, but that’s OK.

For my needs, this is fine. My goal is to be able to upgrade my MacOS on my main drive, and if there are any problems, still have the ability to boot to the clone with the older MacOS until my problems are resolved. After they are resolved, I can go through this routine again and always have a drive I can boot to. I can still run CCC to keep the programs up-to-date on the clone.

 

[TonyAguila]

Update:

Since I was unable to upgrade my MacOS on my clone drive from MacOS 12.5 to 12.5.1, this morning, on my M1 iMac, I erased my 1TB SSD drive, then ran CCC using the Legacy Bootable Copy Assistant.

Then I booted up to the SSD. I had to enter my Mac password in two different places, and I discovered that everything that I had open when I ran CCC was open on the clone. I rebooted and didn’t need to enter my Mac password again. My MacOS is 12.5.1 and I tested the program that broke with an earlier MacOS upgrade. Everything’s good.

It’s not obvious to me how to determine whether I am running from my main drive or my clone drive, but that’s OK.

For my needs, this is fine. My goal is to be able to upgrade my MacOS on my main drive, and if there are any problems, still have the ability to boot to the clone with the older MacOS until my problems are resolved. After they are resolved, I can go through this routine again and always have a drive I can boot to. I can still run CCC to keep the programs up-to-date on the clone.

As long as the two drives have different names, you should be able to determine which one you are booted from. In Finder, go to your home folder (⌘-⇧-H), pull down View -> Show Path Bar (if not already selected). The bottom of the window will indicate your root (startup) drive.

Pay close attention to how things behave. macOS is very complex, and Mike Bombich himself stated a caveat regarding bootable clones using his Legacy Bootable Copy Assistant:

“We present this functionality in support of making ad hoc bootable copies of the system that you will use immediately (e.g. when migrating to a different disk, or for testing purposes), but we do not support nor recommend making bootable copies of the system as part of a backup strategy.”

 

[ervinjelvos]

I got started in this when an upgrade to macOS added Universal Control and made it so that my M1 iMac couldn't run two HDMI ports. It took me a while before I discovered that I could buy an HDMI controller that used DisplayLink.

So I wanted a way to make sure I could always boot to an earlier version of MacOS. I seem to be able to boot to either external drive, but just can't update the macOS on one. I'll try cloning it again. Also, recently, when booting to them, I have had to enter my Mac password a bunch of times, and my AppleID password a couple of times.