Photoshop vs. Pixelmator

Discussion in 'Graphics' started by TaliesinSoft, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. That interface disaster isn't dead yet?

    Steven Fisher, Nov 28, 2009
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  2. Pixelmator may be a very nice program, but its developers spammed me a
    bunch of times, then smeared me over my complaint on the boards. So I'll
    never buy it, and would advise against getting in any kind of business
    relationship with them.

    Of course, Adobe is also evil, but Adobe is the evil of a massive
    corporation. Pixelmator is the personal, targeted kind.

    Steven Fisher, Nov 28, 2009
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  3. TaliesinSoft

    dorayme Guest

    Yes, I know, was being a touch sarcastic towards your Mac app, not so
    much towards you, so take no offence.

    It does, like most of these programs, a variably dreadful job. How you
    say you trust it, tells me that you are more concerned about how it
    looks to you and other average sighted people like yourself rather than
    the many folk who would find it more comfortable to be a bit bigger
    naturally or when they are tired or when they want to sit back from
    their screens to read - I, for example, am big on preferring to slouch
    back and break all the ergonomic instructions now and then.

    Don't trust the thing too much Andy. These programs are sometimes not
    too bad if you can keep a check on them and alter a few things.
    dorayme, Nov 28, 2009
  4. TaliesinSoft

    dorayme Guest

    I mean, just look at the name itself, it sounds like something that
    could torture... creepy. <g>
    dorayme, Nov 28, 2009
  5. TaliesinSoft

    Andy Hewitt Guest

    Yes, a shame really, it looks like it should do so much more, but
    there's little that's actually really useful.

    Yes, me included. I do test them myself, on copy images, but I wouldn't
    use unstable software on my main collection of images.
    I haven't tried the latest versions of ACR (CS3 was the last I used),
    but I would say there's far more options and adjustments in dcraw as it
    is in GIMP - that has curves adjustments, and most of the standard
    adjustments such as white balance, sharpness, exposure, etc. AFAIK, no
    other raw converters have curves adjustment.
    Not sure I agree with that. All the noise reduction solutions I've tried
    have been pretty similar until you do try a dedicated plug-in, or you
    can use Lab mode with Gaussian blur. My preference was for NoiseWare

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly standing up for GIMP here, as
    it doesn't work for me either, I just don't see the same reasons as you,
    that's all.
    Andy Hewitt, Nov 28, 2009
  6. TaliesinSoft

    Andy Hewitt Guest

    Yeah, I kinda had an inkling that was what you were at.
    Don't have much choice really, I could probably knock something up with
    HTML code and an editor, with a manual nearby, but that'd take far too
    long for me, and take away all the convenience of using iWeb.

    If it wasn't iWeb it'd be something else, and like many others I'd have
    to trust it to do the job.

    It's not just that either, I use it with MobileMe, which makes it a
    breeze to update my site, and I use integration with my other iApps too.

    I do understand that iWeb doesn't produce a perfect web page, but it's
    that, or no site at all. However, if there are any simple solutions to
    the problems it does cause, I'm all ears.
    Andy Hewitt, Nov 28, 2009
  7. TaliesinSoft

    Andy Hewitt Guest

    iPhoto applies adjustments in a different way to the other editors being
    discussed here. All the others take a standard image, apply the
    adjustments, and then save the resulting file over the original (unless
    you use 'Save as..' of course). That is 'destructive' editing. If it's a
    JPG, then data and detail is lost every time you apply adjustments and

    iPhoto, along with a few other apps now (Aperture, Lightroom, and one or
    two others), uses 'non-destructive' editing, and never touches the
    original file (actually it never did, but now it works in a more
    efficient way). What it does is apply your adjustments as a set of
    parameters in the database. To speed things up, this is saved as a
    'Preview' image, alongside the original. This means that when you apply
    any adjustments, it never destructs the original, and a fresh Preview is
    created if you change the adjustments, so you don't get degredation of
    the image.

    The adjustment tools in iPhoto, although simple and effective, are also
    a little crude IMHO. They are great for producing a family album, or a
    web page, but if you want really good image quality, then you need to
    look elsewhere. You will probably see that iPhoto produces some very
    stunning images, with really vivid colours etc., but start zooming in
    and comparing detail with other apps, and you'll see its weakness.
    Andy Hewitt, Nov 28, 2009
  8. TaliesinSoft

    TaliesinSoft Guest

    [commenting on iWeb]
    An option you might consider is Freeway Express, produced by Softpress in
    England. Freeway Express is a WYSIWYG website development application and
    requires absolutely no knowledge of HTML and such on the part of the user.
    Another plus is that Freeway Express generates fully web compliant code.
    Softpress offers a free 30 day trial.
    TaliesinSoft, Nov 28, 2009
  9. TaliesinSoft

    TaliesinSoft Guest

    I'm sorry to hear of your experience with Pixelmator's team. I've had nothing
    but very positive experiences with them and that includes a number of
    helpful email exchanges in regards to some "how to dos" I've had.
    TaliesinSoft, Nov 28, 2009
  10. TaliesinSoft

    Fred Moore Guest

    Fred Moore, Nov 28, 2009
  11. TaliesinSoft

    nospam Guest

    ufraw/dcraw has the standard controls, but camera raw 4 (which came
    with cs3 and is 2 versions old if you count lightroom 3 beta) has much
    more, including vibrance, clarity, presets and smart objects. it can
    also work on multiple images at the same time and can even be used with
    jpeg files for the same workflow, but obviously it will be a bit more
    limited than had the original image been raw. camera raw also supports
    a few more cameras than dcraw does.
    nospam, Nov 28, 2009
  12. TaliesinSoft

    Andy Hewitt Guest

    Thanks, but...

    One that also integrates with my other software? And wouldn't involve a
    complete rebuild of the entire site? AFAIK converting sites between
    different editors is a right royal PITA, and a lot of work.

    I really meant if there are any *simple* solutions, that maybe a tweak
    or two with the iWeb site might solve it.
    Andy Hewitt, Nov 29, 2009
  13. TaliesinSoft

    Andy Hewitt Guest

    Fair enough, as I said, I hadn't used later ones. I do use Aperture
    myself, and the different between Raw processing and post-processing is
    almost transparent (as it is with Lightroom I would expect).
    Andy Hewitt, Nov 29, 2009
  14. TaliesinSoft

    dorayme Guest

    I would have to look at iWeb and what you do. There surely *must* be
    controls for stopping some bad things happening. But in general I
    suspect not, because the promise is that you can layout your pages like
    a print page and then, furiously behind the scenes, iWeb will go to work
    to make it happen. Like a medieval magician, it convinces some
    observers! But the whole thing is really a horrible sight behind the
    scenes, they have to kill many pigs and goats and the carnage and blood
    is really not for the squeamish! <g>
    dorayme, Nov 29, 2009
  15. TaliesinSoft

    Andy Hewitt Guest

    Righto, I've been and tested this now (I very rarely zoom web pages
    myself, so have never noticed this), and see what you mean. Hmm.

    I ran the page through the W3C checker, and only three errors were found
    relating to the Counter. I'll have a look through the font settings to
    see if I can find anything relating to changing text size.
    Andy Hewitt, Nov 29, 2009
  16. TaliesinSoft

    dorayme Guest

    There is, but be careful. It is:

    body {
    -webkit-text-size-adjust: none;

    Perhaps I should have just shut up. But if I had, my enemies would be
    far too pleased! <g>

    You could ruin the site that works probably well enough for friends and
    so on. The problems are deep and fundamental, the whole thing is
    stitched together like a home-made boat glued and strung with whatever.
    It might make it across if it does not hit *any* stormy seas or
    conditions unexpected. Any real time spent on attempt to fix would be
    better spent on scrapping and rebuilding with first principles in mind
    and a preparedness to sacrifice exact looks for greater functionality
    across the whole internet.

    Whoever made iWeb was either very naughty (font-sizes in pixels,
    line-heights with units, some of the questionable practices guaranteed
    to set the scene for *inflexibility*.) or simply machiavellian.

    TaliesinSoft's recommendation is possibly better if you do not want to
    go all the way and produce with a text editor. (I don't suppose I can
    tempt you? Come over to alt.html, you will get all the help you want.)
    dorayme, Nov 29, 2009
  17. As usual you don't read what I was saying. I donot compare GIMP with the
    latest versions of Photoshop CS3/4 with GIMP. I compare it - as written
    - with PhS 6.x/7.x. And much has happened to PhS since then!
    Well... I've only been using Photoshop since ver. 2.5 and am now on CS2,
    so I think that I do know quite a lot about using it, though I've never
    claimed to be an expert on the Photoshop...
    Sure I do, and I do not need anyh plug-ins. GIMP works just fine with
    full CMYK. - And it can even work with 'Alfa channels' - this I didn't
    notice yesterday...
    No more strange than it was because it auto-detected my 40bits HP
    scanner. deactivating that one, it switched automatically to 32bits.:)
    - Obviously I have activated the TWAIN plug-in without noticing it...
    You keep comparing with latest versions of whatever you suddenly can
    come up with. - First it was Photoshop 3.x, then 4.x and now Adobe
    Camera RAW, - what'll be the next? - You're simply acting like a fool.:-(!

    Btw. I've made more fun with it today by making colorizing a greyscale
    picture, adding effects, shading and 4 extra layers etc.. - Exporting
    this originally 28kb 128x128pxl now 545,6kb/480x322pxl to .psd was not
    You sure don't know GIMP by saying this. Basic settings are always set
    in prefs, and then managing of course is from the color menu - exactly
    like in any other graphics app - Painter, Freehand, Photoshop, Canvas

    I don't know why documentations and userguide aren't up-to-date, but it
    isn't unusual. I've just finished translation of another application. -
    Here the documentation and user guide is from the 25th of Febr., while
    the app is from 19th of Nov...

    Cheers, Erik Richard

    Erik Richard Sørensen, Member of ADC, <>
    NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - - The Modern Productivity Solution -
    Erik Richard Sørensen, Nov 29, 2009
  18. Yes, the latest ver. of Photoshop Elements has a more enhanced
    colormanaging system than before. - Else I'd recommend you to try to
    find a used Adobe CS2 or CS3 and by this gain the full use of the even
    more enhanced features in Photoshop.

    Else maybe you could use the latest ver. 0.47 of Inkscape, but
    unfortunately this app do really lack color management, but it is full
    vectorized in the workflow. Also the export facilities are all too limited.

    And then of course also GrapæhicConverter can do quite much when using
    Photoshop plug-ins. But here you will need a PhS vector plug-in, if GC
    should be able to work in full vector mode. And here I'm not sure
    whether the 'VectorTools' plug-in for Photoshop 7.x (OS X ver.) would
    work with the latest GC versions. The last ver. I used it on was the GC
    ver. 4.8.

    Also the Canvas 8.x and 9.x do have really fine and enhanced color
    management and both versions do also work on SnowLeopard. But you'll
    have to find these two as used packages - maybe on eBay or similar places.

    Cheers, Erik Richard

    Erik Richard Sørensen, Member of ADC, <>
    NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - - The Modern Productivity Solution -
    Erik Richard Sørensen, Nov 29, 2009
  19. Indeed not.:) - Latest update is from 19th of Aug. this year for Mac OS
    X/X11, and if I remember right the latest Win version is from late
    September... - I sure admit that the appearance 'interface' isnot the
    best. So I do hope that we very soon will have a native OS X beta out...

    Cheers, Erik Richard

    Erik Richard Sørensen, Member of ADC, <>
    NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - - The Modern Productivity Solution -
    Erik Richard Sørensen, Nov 29, 2009
  20. TaliesinSoft

    nospam Guest

    i'm not comparing the gimp with cs3 or cs4. i'm comparing it with
    photoshop 4 from 1996, which was when adjustment layers were added.
    you've been using it that long and don't know what an adjustment layer
    camera raw has been around since summer 2002 with photoshop 7, hardly
    the latest version.
    nospam, Nov 29, 2009
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